Trump to Pull Thousands of U.S. Troops From Germany

Great news. But only I think this is another fake from trump. Trump, like Merkel, like Putin, just like any other president, chancellor or prime minister, are just talking heads. All of them do the will of the ruling class. This was written and proved by one great German - Marx and one even more greater Russian - Lenin.
Therefore, Trump can say anything, but it is not up to him to decide whether this will be done.
Although .... my opinion is that the soon collapse of the global economy will force the United States to cut costs. Including the military. Therefore, the withdrawal of the US military from Europe is quite likely. But it will be in a few years.
In addition, I think that conflicts will continue to grow in the USA. Not these ridiculous demonstrations of protest, but real, deep-seated conflicts in the social and political system. Which will also force the United States to pursue a policy of cost reduction. And after a few years, I think that in the USA there will be more serious problems and they will leave the world alone.
However .... internal conflicts of the socio-political structure of society will go around the world. And in the EU, and in Russia, and in Southeast Asia ... around the world. Capitalism has outlived itself. We need a new socio-political system. And the future is communism.

 

Well, then you should be thrilled that Trump is pulling more US troops out of Free-loading Germany.
Trump’s Big NATO Move Puts Putin on Notice.

This doesn't make Germany any less secure in the alliance, Poland is more exposed than Germany, so this makes sense. If Germans want more military on German soil, well, you have a lot of Germans in Germany.

 

Honestly?
Take the official bla bla bla of politics aside wich has for state reason to sound a special way with regreting it ... in reality we Germans with clear majority shrug only about because it does not hurt us at all and we also laugh about Trump, because he shots with it an own goal for the US.

These US troops in Germany are not for any issue of defending us or to defend Europe etc. ... they are here at us, because you need these bases as FOB's (Forward Operating Bases) for your own and pure American global strategic interests which have nothing to do with NATO! Weakening them is hurting only yourself in the US and does not hurt us at all!

The basic question is ... secure against whom please? Russia? ROFL ...
The USA started this new "cold war" with Russia with the support of the Europeans ... started without any reason! Do you remember Bush Jr. when he started to install his missile defense shield in Poland and Romania and what was his reason? It's not against Russia, he said, but to protect Europeans against these evil Iranian and North Korean missiles! What a brazen and outrageous lie! Back then, neither of them had any missiles with a corresponding range, Iran to this day not and North Korea maybe a few dozen now, but not 15 years ago! So who was this measure actually against, eh? Exactly ... Russia and Russia had done nothing at that time, absolutely nothing evil, which justified that! So the whole thing started with further actions by the USA and counter-reactions by Russia!

 

No. We're fine, you're fine. Everything is good!

Well, the Germans and Russians should be very happy together!

 

Ehm ... if the US is really fine I will doubt. Sure ... those who believe the told nonsense and lies of Trump in this matter are fine, as well all those who want to end NATO in general and / or the world wide actions of US military everywhere. But next time you make actions like in Syria, Lybia, Iraq and Afghanistan or anywhere else in Africa and ME, you will be in trouble without these bases

And about us ... it is not a matter of fine or not with it, we simply don't care and it is out of any serious interest for the majority...
But if then this impudent BS and lie telling of persons like Trump will end, we will be of course happy.

What has this to do with being happy and together happy please?
Didn't you get that the bad guy is here sitting this time in Washington or won't yu accept it or why this comment?

 

In your dreams.

 

We will see. Time is the most honest person.

 

Time is not a person.

 

Oh sure, you're fine, we're fine, but you are just "concerned".

As long as everyone is happy, it's all good!

 

It's Fake News. Trump's Terrific, NATO is fine, we are positioning our forces where they provide the greatest protection against the most likely threat. And you're glad they are leaving, so, it's a win/win.

POLAND TELLS THE KREMLIN –AND NATO– IT’S PREPARED TO FIGHT:

Trump's moving our Army’s V Corps headquarters to Poland. The Kremlin and Putin object. ’

Poland anchors NATO’s current eastern flank.

Moving the V Corps tells Russia that invading Poland could quickly ignite a high-intensity war, with lethal consequences for Russia.

Russia's invasion and annexation of Crimea and invasion of eastern Ukraine are imperialism.

Strategically Poland is positioned where West Germany was in the 1960's.

Better yet, Poland doesn't hate us and they don't take advantage of us. They are a worthy and responsible American ally that pays its fair share and honors the commitments they make. Poland spends even more than the agreed on 2% of GDP on defense and covers the majority of stationing costs for permanently based U.S. troops. They like our troops, unlike others, they appreciate our troops. The Polish defense ministry is committed to building forces equipped with an array of high-tech weapons designed to stop Russian tank and mechanized units.

They are actually committed to their defense and would stand shoulder to shoulder with US and NATO troops should fighting break out, unlike others, that blame the US for every conflict.

So, you're glad that we are leaving, and we are glad to leave. If you need more defense, well, we are leaving behind plenty of infrastructure, and Germany has a lot of Germans if you want more manpower. So, Win/Win!

 

Confessions of a NATO Trip Wire: Why Poles and Balts Want U.S. Trip Wire Forces.

 

Prepared to fight who - Russia ? This is bedtime fantasy but not reality - sans the missile defense part - which is idiotic mindlessness on steroids.

 

Aside point that these former 35,000 soldiers in Germany were no fighting troops mostly ... only the 2nd Armored Cavalry Regimet is, te rest not ...
Apart from the fact that Russia poses no threat at all and has not threatened NATO or individual members of the nATO once and the whole thing is a pure campaign of lies because of evil Russia etc. ...
And apart from the fact that Poland generally hates Russia for historical reasons, which leads to paranoia in Poland ...

It was the USA which started this new cold war with Russia when placing anti Missile shield in Poland and reasoning it once 15 years ago (by Bush Jr. himself!!!) with the total lie that it is not against Russia but against these evil missiles of Iran and North Korea.
Nice when neither Iran nor North Korea had missiles with such a range! So in reality it was against Russia and with what reason? Russia did at this time nothing bad ... NOTHING!

Nonsense ...
It was around 10 years ago that there was a serious dispute about gas because Ukraine did not want to pay its gas bill to Gazprom in Russia. Back then, the West had nothing better to do than publicly sin about accepting Ukraine into NATO and the EU. At that time, Putin had issued a clear warning not to interfere in his strategic influence and if Ukraine joins the EU and NATO, then Eastern Ukraine and Crimea will go to Russia. By the way, 80 to 90% of the population in both are Russians, that is to say, fellow countrymen and for that reason alone it is not imperialism!
At that time he was not taken seriously and practically laughed at him ... but nowadays you don't laugh in the West anymore!

I therefore say that it is only consistency that Putin makes, because he lets his words be followed by deeds!

AND ... the USA demands that the rest of the world respect their spheres of influence, especially the Caribbean and Central America. Then the US has to respect the sphere of influence of others like Russia, eh?

You mean till 1989 and not only the 1960's ...
However, the comparison is not correct. At that time, West Germany had a long border with communist East Germany and also with the former communist CSSR and was thus the direct frontier of the Cold War etc.
Poland only has direct contact with the small Russian enclave of Kaliningrad ... the former German East Prussia. Otherwise, Belarus and Ukraine lie between Poland and Russia.

Wrong!
First of all, it is not about an alleged hatred of your troops with us, that's nonsense! It's about the lies and insolence of a Donald Trump, which makes us hate!

Then the goodwill towards you Americans in Poland rises and falls with the current government in Poland ... and Duda only narrowly won the last presidential election!

Then we have the fact that Duda has offered you an investment and a share of USD 2 billion, but you are asking for around 1 billion more and Poland refuses = there is currently a lot of trouble.
In addition, there are other serious disputes that are a no-go for Poland and an outrage of the USA: You demand that all US soldiers must be given immunity, even if they commit crimes outside of the camps on Polish territory ... tell me, do you have a damaged brain to demand such a BS form another country?

And then it's currently less than 2% for Poland ... and for your information: Germany spends around 55 billion USD, which is around 1.5% of GDP ... AND FIVE TIMES WHAT POLAND SPENDS!

And as for the general criticism of you and your conflicts ... can it be that these are justified?
Wasn't the attack on Iraq in 2003 verifiably and in meantime admitted by some high brass like Powell of the Bush administration involved at the time, based on deliberate lies about WMD? Just mentioned as an example ...

Again, it is not about being happy or being glad that you leave or not being ...

Ultimately, the clear majority of Germans are not interested in whether you want to stay with all 35,000 soldiers, withdraw with parts or all, or deploy more!
You had reduced your troops by 75% in the 1990's and thereafter because Cold War ended ... and we survived it in every way!

And you mentioned the V. Corps ... you know that this corps was dissolved in 2013 and was last stationed in Fort Knox / USA, so not in Germany at all? And you know that only the HQ with around 600 soldiers goes to Poland, but not only are all combat units that should belong to this corps not yet determined, but all "candidates" are stationed in the USA and not in Germany?
Just as an example, why we just don't care what you do and it's not a matter of happy, glad and win / win!

And in the end you harm yourself, because until you have built an air base like Ramstein or a military hospital like Landstuhl in Poland, many years will pass and you don't have other alternatives in Europe ... and you need these bases for your interests, but not we Germans!

 

Please elaborate.

If Russia doesn't want to shoot missiles in Poland's direction, what do they care?
If Russia does want to shoot missiles in Poland's direction, then an anti-missile system is a very good idea!

Ukraine is not a member of either.

That was Hilter's justification for invading Poland.

​

 

@Mandelus

You're quite a fan.

Talk to me about Cuba.

This is your argument for US troops remaining in Germany? Yet, you also argue that they are unnecessary and that you are glad they are leaving. Do you have mixed feelings about US Troops leaving Germany?

Currently, 7% of Ukraine's territory is under Russian occupation. Considering that shared border, I can see why Poland has such a sense of urgency.

 

@Mandelus

You allow others to control your emotions, is that wise?

When I'm in Germany, I can feel tremendous goodwill toward Americans, I love the German People, their depopulation saddens me, I think the world needs Germans, both for their craftsmanship and for their kindness, but, in the media, I see nothing but insults and slights from Germany toward the US, so, less interaction is probably a good idea, we don't seem to get along.

If you want US troops to defend your nation's border, that's part of the agreement. If that's not acceptable, well, use your own people to defend your borders.

 

@Mandelus

No. It's in excess of their 2% commitment. They are among the 5 meeting their commitment of the 29 nations of NATO.

Germany spends $491.32 Bn, or 1.36% of GDP. They violate their commitment to save $231.21 Bn, so we continue to reduce our presence, which reduces the cash stream into your country that is part of US troop presence. All those folks eat somewhere, rent housing from somewhere, buy furniture from somewhere, goods and services from somewhere, fuel and materials from somewhere, and that somewhere is the surrounding neighborhoods of the host country. Merkel is very smart, I'm sure she has figured out how much Germany is losing by these US troops formerly based in Germany vs how much Germany saves by not honoring their NATO commitment, and Germany is probably coming out ahead, so, I'm not sure what you are upset about.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/nato-spending-by-country

Germany had no working submarines, not a damn one.
Their new military equipment was defective.
Only 39 percent of new weapons delivered to the German military recently were ready for the battlefield.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...king-submarines-new-equipment-defective-35272

 

@Mandelus

You guys don't take your defense seriously. If you did, you'd take that $231.21 Bn that you think you "save" by not honoring your NATO commitment and go shopping at US Arms Manufacturer that will sell you equipment that works, is ready for the battlefield and interoperates with all NATO equipment, but, Germany refused, and that's their right, and frankly, you're depending on US Blood and Treasure to fill the shortfall should it be needed. That doesn't work well for us.

You guys are supposed to be Ready To Fight to defend your fellow nations in the NATO alliance, and you are not.

We get nothing but an endless stream of bad news regarding the Bundeswehr, or German armed forces.

A Month! We'll have Americans on the ground with working equipment fighting for their safety in hours! Do you know how much further the US is from the Baltics than Germany? Germany simply does not take it's NATO commitments seriously, and therefore, you cannot be counted on to.

 

@Mandelus

So, there was a time when Germany was too militaristic, and there is now where Germany cannot effectively defend themselves, and with this loss of vigor, you are no longer forming families with birthrates that replace even your own population. Hopefully, after national soul searching, you will rediscover yourselves, and hit something in the middle between these two extremes. I think Germany could be a very good fit in the alliance that defends the Free World, but, you're your own nation and you are free to make your own decisions, and right now, the Free World cannot rely on your military to meet their commitments to the common defense of NATO, those are simply the facts. And they are facts Germany could change if they had the desire to. And, I bet if you made that change, you'd also see the end of the demographic suicide that is Germany, with Germans, once again forming families and producing children, who would proudly take their place as the world's craftsmen and defenders of the free world.

Certainly miscalculation on our part, whereas, German caution about the wisdom of the actions and the credibility of the intelligence they were based on, I think, turned out to be more accurate than ours. I think NATO is stronger with a strong German commitment.

I have much respect for how effectively you communicate in a second language, I'm trying to learn the same skill, and I don't even have a insignificant portion of your ability to communicate effectively in a second language.

Take care,
Zorro

 

I'm anti-world police so I support this move.

If Germans don't think they need much defense then so be it, otherwise build a defensive military.

I'm actually stunned anyone on the left is against this - my old anti-war mates on that side are furious about this and I can't believe it.

 

The US World Police is ultimately just a myth and has only been used as an excuse. A police officer takes care of all "crimes" ... but the geostrategic actions of the USA are consistently shaped only by American interests and if something in the world is not of US interest, then the USA does not care and ignores it. Example? Where was the US if it is a world policeman when a genocide occurred in Rwanda that killed over 1 million people?

It's not about how much defense Germany thinks it has or needs to have in terms of US troops in Germany. Over and over again this hideous lie that these US troops are there for our defense!
Are the ground personnel of Ramstein Air Base defending Germany? No ... it operates the air base only for purely geostrategic interests as "FOB" and that has nothing to do with NATO!
Is the huge US military hospital defending Germany? No ... it is mainly the first station for all US soldiers wounded in combat, in Africa, in the ME and in Afghanistan (and of course also in the event of accidents in Germany). So it has primarily nothing to do with NATO and the defense of Germany!


And apart from that, apart from the 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment, everything is just staff and logistics, which also do not defend Germany!

After the USA, Germany has the second highest military budget in terms of currency ... and with 182,000 soldiers also the fourth largest armed force in NATO after the USA (1.3 million), Turkey (440,000) and France (207,000)!

So please explain to me why this BS keeps coming and coming again that it is for Defense Germany and Germany does not do enough when the facts show the contrary!

Sure, some more money is necessary, but not much. Mostly German Armed Forces have a problem due to some incompetence in decisions, structure and wasting tax money! 2 examples:
The German Navy has e.g. 6 submarines of the type 212A, which are even considered by the USA to be the best non-nuclear hunting submarines (they have fuel cell propulsion) and are also used by Israel, among others. The supply of spare parts is miserable because there is no reasonable depot storage for stupid reasons. If something breaks, it often has to be produced by the manufacturer first and is not available as a spare part = the U-Boat is not service able so long ... and that's idiotic and cause idiotic Cannibalism in which 2 submarines serve as a spare parts store!. And let's stick with the Navy as another example: The training sailing ship "Gorch Fock" had to go to the shipyard for repairs - a cost estimate of 10 million euros. Until now repair costs are over 100 million euros, ship is still in yard and for that money you build at least minimum 2 new sailing training ships ... a total waste of tax money!

As for your comment about the left and anti-war, etc. Could it be that these people do not really question the US involvement in NATO, especially not this barrage of lies, secret facts and fale news that Trump is spreading ... but against this war mongering of the USA such as e.g. the criminal US attack on Iraq in 2003?

 

Thank you

The main problem you name here with the transport planes ... I can give you further examples like with our 6 submarines ... is not by financial problems ... they are structural and organizational in nature.

I don't know how familiar you are with a functioning logistics system, especially when it comes to the armed forces, which are a little different from the private economy.

Everything can break and then needs repair and then mostly spare parts. In addition to obvious wear parts, with a little experience you also know which things break faster and more quickly.
Then what is the logical step that you have to take so that the things are quickly ready for use again? Stocking of corresponding spare parts with an appropriate inventory, which can be accessed quickly when required. You can do this in two ways:

On the one hand, you can operate your own depots with warehouses, where these things are stored in stock and also ordered in good time when used, etc. This can also go down to the level of the single units ... for example, it used to be that way during my Army tme that a tank taillon with around 60 tanks must have at least 10 complete motor/ power units / modules for the tanks in own stock!
On the other hand, if you want to avoid having your own depots with expensive own warehousing, then you have to conclude contracts with the manufacturers / suppliers of the parts ... and these contracts must then also include fast delivery if necessary, to which the manufacturer is obliged etc. Of course, the manufacturers also want to see additional money for this, because the only thing that is free is death, as one saying goes.

As far as clear and understandable, I guess ... now comes the hideously stupid practice in the German armed forces, for which mostly high officers in the general staff are not responsible, but civilians and even external consulting firms!
Many of the things that can break, including some obvious wear and tear, are actually not stored by anyone! This means that if something like this breaks, it has to be manufactured first and that is known to take time! So the device in question cannot be used for so long and is not ready for use!
The units themselves can then only make do with cannibalism ... means: A certain proportion of the tanks, planes, ships or whatever they have actually only serves as a spare parts store to keep the other devices operational as far as possible. And if that no longer works, then the number of devices ready for use is reduced more and more and we come to the example you mentioned with the transport plane!

Conclusion: This is not a financial problem due of too less spent in military budget, but due to be stupid!

 

We have with nearly 55 billion USD the second biggest military budget in NATO after the USA ... and as I explained in last post before this one, it is not a financial problem, but a of other nature.

How do you come to an amount of 231 billion USA please? This would be nearly more as all other European NATO members spent together in defense!
There is for sure no need for such a big amount ... for very sure not!

And you know what this will also cause?
You kow this silly hint to Nazi time at German when someone is not pleased with a German No to something? With this ampount we would have the third biggest military bufget after the USA and China in the world and then I can still see and hear this blabbering of Germany is uparming for a WW-3 in Hitler style ad so on.

Sorry ... no thanks!
Some few billions more is OK, but thats it.

BTW ...
Due to the worldwide decline in GDP due to Corona and thus also in Germany ... the currently around 55 billion can very quickly no longer become 1.5%, but 2% or more.
We would have fulfilled our obligation before the must from 2024 on ...

 

Most I have still answered with the previous posts to you ... so I will not repeat it really now.

Ukraine is not yet a member of NATO and / or EU ... but the action on Maidan, als well as they were reasoned to happen, serious negotiations for it are still undergoing!

No, it was not Hitler's justification, at least not the main reason ... Hitler did not recognize the right of Poland to exist as such in general. For him it was land grabbing from German territories before 1918 in order to resurrect Poland artificially = unacceptable!

 

Missile defense is not to defend Poland against Russian missiles. Missile defense is to defend against a nuclear attack against the US.

Missile defense is a really bad deal for Poland - negative x 10.

1) missile defense does not work very well to begin with but - does not work at all against cruise missiles.
2) in the case of pre-emptive nuclear strike or retaliation over a perceived nuclear threat - the first thing to be attacked are satellites and "Missile Defense" - missile defenses taken out with nuclear cruise missiles.

Don't see how putting itself in the nuclear crosshair's is a good deal for Poland - on the contrary - it is dumb and dumber on steroids.