UFO's aliens...what are they? Are they demons?????

I believe he was speaking of some unscrupulous shamans who might exploit their 'knowledge' & enhanced level of awareness (thanks to psychedelics) as leverage to get special favors & privileges from their community. Perhaps some shamans might be prone to getting on some kind of power trip if they're not careful.

 

That Valiant Thor dude. I don't know what to make of that story. It's plausible - but unfortunately not enough material to confirm or deny his existence & story.

 

I'm pretty sure I've seen pics of newspaper headlines regarding his visit. Yes, probably on AA. The connection between Ike and aliens is pretty strong. Did you watch the latest on Skin Walker Ranch last year? The guy who bought it from Bigelow documented everything with high tech equipment.

 

I remember back in the laTE 80’s where you could down load an active SETI screen saver that when you were ‘t using your machine the app would download datasets and run analysis on them searching for promising signals; you could watch the progress of the analysis on your screen In this way, the SETI program crowd sourced its’s search to thousand of volunteers using thousands of computers in their search. Never had that ‘wow’ moment nor heard of anyone that did. Well, the idea was fun.
At CERN when running, billions of collisions per second are recorded for later analysis, building a huge unanalyzed data set, I thought I had heard of a similar scheme to outsource analysis.
If you go the Cern website, you can down load unanalyzed collision trace data sets and participate, using an analysis primer, you can search for collision traces that might be meaningful. It's a little mind numbing, but interesting.

 

I get my groceries delivered, so I don’t get to read the Enquirer while standing in line, so I miss all the really good stories and evidence.

 

Re Sagan what specifically of his UFO comments represented weak arguments?

I have yet to see a convincing argument for why aliens would want to visit earth; not much in the way of intelligent life here.Lol

 

Dinosaurs existed for about 250 million years, perhaps they developed intelligence and technology that enable them to live under the Antarctica ice and in the deep of the oceans, periodically emergin to fly about. As f O fans would say, anything is possible.Lol

 

Yeah, I just can't say much about the Valiant Thor story. Just too little to go on.

No, I've not watched the Skin Walker Ranch documentaries except only briefly.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. As soon as I figure out what an 'analysis primer' is, and also find some personal use for unanalyzed collision trace data at CERN, I'll be sure to check it out.

 

I believe you meant to direct this question to me, so I'll respond.

Many years ago I obtained a copy of the MJ-12 (Majestic 12) documents which included the late Stanton Friedman's analysis of these documents & Project Blue Book, along with a prologue in which Friedman addresses Carl Sagan's arguments against the belief in UFOs/alien visitation. In addition to Sagan's, Friedman also countered similar arguments by debunkers Isaac Azimov, Philip Klass, and Arthur C. Clark.

I have no idea where that great document is now, nor do I recall the specific arguments made by Sagan (I just recall them being very weak). But I did find an article online of Friedman's review of Sagan's views on UFOs/aliens.

Here is an excerpt:

Sagan refused to believe that this intelligent life has somehow reached our world, which the UFO phenomenon testified. He is well-known for a statement he made about the phenomenon in his books — ‘Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence’.

Stanton Friedman, who was Sagan’s at the University of Chicago, challenged him on this statement. In an open letter addressed to Sagan that appeared on the MUFON UFO Journal on May, 1989, he pointed out the 681 unknowns of Project Blue Book Special Report No. 14, which clearly contradicted Sagan’s statements about the availability of evidence.

UFO researchers like Friedman and Dr James McDonald have criticised Menzel and Sagan for making irresponsible, unscientific statements like these that misled both the public and the scientific community for decades. Even today, many scientists quote their statements to masquerade their ignorance and laziness to do some real research about the phenomenon. Now it appears Menzel’s place has been taken by Prof. Stephen Hawkins.

Many members of my WhatsApp ‘UFO’ group have asked me about Hawkins’ views. In a TED talk titled ‘Asking Big Questions about the Universe’, Hawkins said, “I am discounting reports of UFOs. Why would they appear only to cranks and weirdos?”

This is exactly the same attitude that Menzel and Sagan exhibited — first, they refused to look at the evidence, and then they dismissed anyone who said they saw a UFO. Obviously it appears that Hawkins, who studied black holes thousands of light years away, objectively had not shown the same objectivity in studying the eight scientific reports about UFOs since 1948 produced by scientists who are in no way inferior to him.
https://www.newindianexpress.com/op...ere-dismissed-by-stephen-hawkins-1531767.html


And in the following pdf you can read letters Stanton Friedman wrote to Carl Sagan addressing the latter's views of UFOs/alien visitation.

The letters from Stanton Friedman in the collection provide the most articulate critique of Sagan's position on UFOs. Although some of Friedman's critques are now outdated, other aspects of his arguments are mirrored in contemporary discussions about UFOs among non-scientists and enthusiasts. The collection includes several articles by Stanton T. Friedman [box 792, folder 6] that discuss some of the reported sightings (such as MUFON reports) and critique the SETI community for ignoring such evidence. Friedman also seems to take the MJ-12 documents seriously (i.e., believes in the Roswell UFO cover-up). Friedman wrote Sagan on multiple occasions, although, as seen below, Sagan did not always reply.
file:///C:/Users/user2/Downloads/essoar.10511233.1.pdf

I already addressed this in post #40.

 

Of course. This is yet another possibility (and very probable) for some of the 'alien' encounters & UFO sightings. But this wouldn't necessarily explain every reported UFO/alien event, let alone those of antiquity. Either way, the issue is being able to discern events that are of human origin vs those of non-human origin.

 

Every 'debunked' story needs to be fact-checked first because most so-called 'skeptics' seem to have an agenda and can no longer be trusted to be objective.

You said: "Every 'debunked' story needs to be fact-checked first because most so-called 'skeptics' seem to have an agenda and can no longer be trusted to be objective."

You're just calling skeptics "liars".

SETI was established, because aliens might possibly send us a single in the electromagnetic spectrum (by accident or on purpose). Monitoring for such signals is a relatively low budget way of watching for such events. Today, SETI is moe or less rolled into other programs.

I don't understand how the govt admitting ETs were here would shut down SETI.

 

An on a very serious note. Hallucinogenics including certain mushrooms, peyote, mescal are used by certain cultures for spiritual reasons. However they do not live conditioned by the world we Westerners live in where we have been conditioned to believe in the limits of our five senses and to determine value by what inanimate objects we own or how much power we have over others.

So with those biases in mind when you give someone like you entrenched in Western culture certain chemicals without you first having engaged in many spiritual exercises first, cleansed yourself of Western diet and the chemicals it has, practiced meditation and clearing your head, etc., etc., the subjective impressions you are going to get from whatever it is you took will not be the same as others who engage in certain spiritual disciplinary practices. They will not see or experience what you do-so for you to assume they will is not correct and to assume because what you saw may be non genuine and just the result of being high is understandable but its precisely why no genuine spiritual person would give you peyote or mescal or mushrooms just like I would never give sugar to a kid with adhd or booze to an alcoholic or grass or any recreational drugs to someone who is bi polar or schizophrenic.

So with due respect, whatever its used for by people of other cultures, you may not understand what they do and can use it for. For them it assists them open a passage to another level of awareness. They do not "hallucinate" as we think of the term. The thoughts or visions it opens up make perfect sense and connect to their beliefs in the here and now world of you and me.

I never was a fan of Westerners going to Peru, parts of Mexico, South America, India, etc., getting stoned and high in pursuit of awareness. One can learn the "awareness: without the hallucinogenics by a combination of any or all of exercise, meditation, diet, fasting, praying, reading, listening, emptying the mind and slow breathing, cleansing from swetting.

Westerners tend to think anything that garbles or distorts or blurs or changes the 5 senses and how we perceive them is suspect and due to mental illness or drugs. In our world it probably often is but that is in our world. When we think of drugs we think of stoned people on the streets blitzed out by the crap that is being sold and turning our cities into Zombie lands. Fentanyl is a synthetic tranquilizer mostly made in Chinese but now domestic American and Canadian labs. Meth, crack cocaine, these are all artificial highs that simply allow people to become numb and block out all their thoughts and senses which otherwise overwhelm them with self hate.

What I would say to you is early Christians meditated. They practiced meditation and yoga and other such exercises. How much of that was brought back with Jesus from his visit to India in his day no one knows. Certainly is medical knowledge appears to have come from India.

 

Not liars, but intellectually dishonest - meaning, they come off as objective, fair 'skeptics', but instead project their personal biases and/or uneducated opinions. Although, some do outright lie - whether they know it or not, I don't know.

That's what the public is told. But I don't buy it. I think it's a propaganda front to groom academia & also distract the public from the UFO phenomenon. But who knows, maybe Sagan was a paid shill and knew it.

What use would SETI be if aliens are already here and/or have been coming here for millennia? Would it not be more productive & fruitful to spend those funds on expanding an investigation into earth's visitors & try to make contact with them here, rather than try to make contact with ETs light years away?

 

The use of herbal psychedelics by Westerners has been transformative to many. Not all use these botanicals to 'get high', but for a real personal need - as well as for understanding & clarity of one's place/role in the universe. This need is not surprising as Western culture, and particularly its science, has cut itself off from nature & has lost the ability to commune intimately with the wisdom of nature's elements for the answers it seeks. The soul craves understanding & unity with infinite Oneness, and this pushes Westerners to seek various techniques to satisfy this need - eg, as you mentioned, yoga, meditation, breathing techniques, drugs, psychedelics, fasting, music, etc.

These botanicals should be used sparingly when needed, not for recreation or daily use - except to relieve pain or symptoms of chronic illness. Westerners, because of their culture, are subject to far more health problems than indigenous people who live simpler lives & obtain all their medicines & needs directly from nature. So it's not surprising that Westerners flock to these drugs and tend to abuse them as an escape.

By contrast, indigenous groups don't use these plants simply to 'get high' of course, but to serve some need within their community & its members. In such groups, these herbals serve practical, social, and religious functions.

For me, I use mushrooms only occasionally to re-connect with my 'true self', to feel that 'Oneness with All', and to get a respite from my constantly chattering ego mind. I have no interest at all in getting 'high' or having wild hallucinations. I need to work on myself. My gf, who is very psychic, talks to both animate & inanimate objects. The mushrooms talk to her frequently, and they tell her to tell me when I should use the mushrooms. She's told that the mushrooms, once they're inside of you, they never leave you and continue to transform you. And I believe they are transforming me by removing layers (like an onion) of parts of myself that have been weighing me down or blocking my 'progress' & need to be released. I not only feel different after using them, but this feeling of being different & constantly changing lasts when I'm not using them. So they do indeed continue to work on you.

Unlike me, my gf resonates with weed (edibles, not smoked) and doesn't do well with mushrooms. Mushrooms, she says, are a 'darker' energy & are too strong for someone as sensitive and happy-go-lucky as her. Mushrooms are the masters of our psyche. Once she used medicinal mushrooms in capsules as a health aid, but found herself transported to a lush, dark forest in 3D with mushrooms growing on trees. She would sit there with a blank look on her face and not move for hours, with no awareness of where her body really was. I had no idea she had been transported to a different reality. She can sense those mushrooms are still within her cells, their energy having changed her into someone less passive, less meek, less shy, and less of a pushover than she used to be. I suppose that could be a good thing, but sometimes it makes her impatient & easier to anger. Years later, she partook of an entire chocolate bar of magic mushrooms and had a wonderful experience. Not only that, but it knocked out her fibromyalgia for almost a year, and when it returned, it was far less severe than it had been. (So for anyone with fibromyalgia, or any other neurological issue, try magic mushrooms as a remedy. I believe what it does is 'reset' the nervous system so that it's not so sensitive to EMF & other toxins.) Her following experiences with magic mushrooms were not, however, pleasant, and were in fact very scary. She felt like she was going to die. (Terrence McKenna once said that magic mushrooms can convince you you're going to die, even though you're perfectly fine. I've experienced this also. But they're doing something very important.) When she asked the mushrooms why it helped her with her fibromyalgia & was pleasant the first time, but gave her a horrible experience when used again, they told her that it was a one time 'gift' to her, but that she's not to take mushrooms again. She was told the mushrooms can indeed cure her if she continued using them, but that she would risk losing herself. So she's not using them anymore - only weed edibles occasionally. Now only I use mushrooms, but she was told to keep a bag of magic mushrooms next to the bed so that they can be near her & also continue to communicate with her. They tell her all kinds of stuff, including about the future.

 

You can't charge each project for not looking somewhere else.

Even ET phoned home, by the way.

 

Sure, but it's still a waste of time & money (for whoever is funding it).

ET knew the phone number.

 

you make a number of unsubstantiated assertions. So, skeptics, are liars? Perhaps you haven’t shown the evidence they couldn’t dismiss.
I am a skeptic, does that make me a liar?

 

Or perhaps skeptics refuse to look at evidence they can't dismiss?

Go back and read my post. I didn't call skeptics liars - although some may be. I view most as intellectually dishonest & lacking objectivity.

 

What makes you think it's a waste of time to look for organized transmissions from outside the solar system?

Have you decide there are aliens on our planet, but nowhere else, and that those here never communicate with where they came from?

What gave you that knowledge?

BTW, SETI doesn't have to worry about phone numbers.

 

Excellent point. Yes, all lies are not necessarily malicious. Some individuals have deceived themselves so thoroughly that they have cognitive dissonance. I guess it could be the Dunning-Kreuger Effect in play.

 

The Skin Walker Ranch story is fascinating. I think its location is fairly close to the 37th parallel, along which numerous UFO and strange events have taken place. One of the most fascinating things was toward the end of the series, in which several native americans began a drum-beating and vocal ritual. After a few moments, the IR camera recorded increased activity, I guess a thermal event of sorts, at that location. The place is cursed of course, nothing good comes from there but much "evil" emanates.

 

Arthur C. Clarke, author of "2001 A Space Odyssey" is famous for saying:

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

If a technology is sufficiently advanced beyond the understanding of its observers, it may be perceived as supernatural or magical. UFOs are probably not demons or angels, but something we don't understand. IF beings are capable of interdimensional travel, then they would be so advanced that we could never prove they exist. How can ants prove to other ants that humans exist? Such beings would be careful to pick up any evidence that could interfere with their observations of us. If the Rare Earth Hypothesis is true, then intelligent life is so rare that EARTH would be very interesting, and the greatest show in this sector of the galaxy.

 

If you knew ETs were here, would you bother wasting time & money trying to make contact with possible ETs light years away? Now, I couldn't care less if people want to do this. I just don't want taxpayers to have to add to its funding. It should be 100% privately funded.

If I knew ETs were here, I'd try to make contact with them in person. Then, among a million other questions, I could ask them about other ETs out there. Just how productive do you think trying to detect/locate, and then communicate with ETs out there would be when they're light years away?

That's why they haven't made progress.

 

And that's okay, except for one problem: The 'skeptical' community seems to have the loudest voice & the most influence, as they're supported by govt agencies & mainstream academia. And they actively campaign to discredit/destroy real objective investigations into the paranormal, while pushing the official 'skeptical' narrative. The 'elites' don't like it when people try to think for themselves. They want us to look to them for all the answers.

Interesting. Perhaps that area has a 'portal' or strong magnetic vortex.