Ukraine Missile Strikes Deep Inside Russia Could Readily Change War's Outlook In Ukraine's Favor!

Discussion in 'Russia & Eastern Europe' started by JimfromPennsylvania, Sep 8, 2024.

  1. JimfromPennsylvania

    JimfromPennsylvania Active Member Past Donor

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    The Ukraine government has made a strong plea to the United States government and their allies to allow Ukraine to use these government supplied weapons deep into Russia not just staging areas in Russia that supply Russian forces in Ukraine which the current permission authority allows. Many voices in America believe the U.S. government should approve this request, this writer wishes to add his voice to this chorus! I understand the point being made by the authority figures in America that say Ukraine does not have enough of these missiles and the U.S. cannot supply enough of these missiles to militarily hurt Russia by such attacks that would make a material difference in the war. I get this point and I don't argue that it is not a true and accurate assessment; but, I think there is other potential war outcome benefits of allowing Ukraine to use these allied supplied missiles deep inside Russia as long as it is a military target being struck and I consider Russian factories that manufacture Russian missiles and tanks as legitimate military targets.


    Allowing deep penetration missile strikes inside Russia will hurt the morale of the Russian people and the Russian army. Prior to this war Vladimir Putin had an aura of being invincible there is no military challenge he couldn't handle for the Russian people, with what has transpired with this war with the Russian military's poor performance that aura that reputation has been dramatically weakened. However, Putin still holds the reputation of being an outstandingly strong leader; if Ukraine was able to regularly do things like bomb an air base deep inside Russia and destroy some Russian combat planes and bomb that Russian factory that makes over one-hundred missiles a month for the Russian Army to bomb Ukraine with that would hurt Putin's reputation as a strong military leader. This would also be jarring to ordinary Russians that live close to these bomb sites they would recognize that their lives are in danger with this Ukrainian war and their fear and concern would make it to their love ones in the Russian army and most importantly on the Ukrainian front lines and it would sow doubt does Putin really know what he is doing, is this war winnable and why are we fighting this war, practically the whole free world is against Russia in this war does this legitimately mean Russia is the bad guys in this war. It is a time tested adage that an army with bad morale does not fight well, if this bad morale in the Russian army caused them to lose one or two major battles it could become contagious and it could give the Ukrainian army material better morale and opportunities for battlefield successes and the combat zone in Ukraine is really not that large so if Russian held territory was bisected or trisected the entire Russian army could be routed in Ukraine.


    The other morale benefit is to the Ukrainian people, right now the Ukrainian people see no victory in sight they fight for their existential existence and that is mighty motivation. But the Ukrainian people may begin to get desperate and believe the unwise voices that say make a peace deal with Putin and permanently end this war which is a fools viewpoint in Putin's mind Ukraine is not a legitimate or real country it is part of Russia so Ukraine needs to be permanently dissolved and Putin is a man that does not accept not getting his way so there is no land concession permanent peace deal with Russia for Ukraine, Ukraine either wins this war or will cease to exist. Just like the Ukraine's bombing successes in Crimea lifted the Ukrainian people's morale so would bombing successes deep inside Russia. Further it would boost Ukraine's reputation in the world it would provide credence that Ukraine is a real contender against Russia in this war and could very well win it!
     
  2. Valery Staricov

    Valery Staricov Active Member

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    The defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine "fell." in Donbass, During November 2024, the Russian Armed Forces took ticks and broke into the city of Kurakhovo, Donetsk region, in an effort to surround this city from three sides. [139] On November 13, Russian mechanized columns with landing on board boldly and rapidly burst into the city of Kupyansk in the Kharkiv region along the corridor cleared by the Solntsepek strikes.
    Strong "Oreshnik" Warning shot after which World War III and Apocalypse could begin
    US President Joe Biden gave permission to the Ukrainian Armed Forces to strike with long-range missiles deep into Russia. On November 19, 2024, American ATACMS missiles and on November 21, British Storm Shadow missiles attacked targets in the Kursk and Bryansk regions. In response, on November 21, 2024, the Russian Armed Forces launched a demonstration strike at the Yuzhmash plant in Dnepropetrovsk with a Russian medium-range ballistic missile Oreshnik in a non-nuclear version. On the same day, Russian President Vladimir Putin made a televised address in which he stated:

    • The United States and its NATO allies continued to escalate: "Experts are well aware that it is impossible to use such weapons without the direct participation of military specialists from the countries producing such weapons."
    • The Ukrainian plant "Yuzhmash" was hit by the latest Oreshnik medium-range ballistic missile in nuclear-free hypersonic equipment. From this plant in Russia used to make rods to punish criminals.
    • "There are no countermeasures to such weapons."
    • When using the Oreshnik system, alerts for civilians for humanitarian reasons will be distributed in advance.
    • "We are ready for any development of events. If anyone else doubts this, then in vain. There will always be a mirror response. " We have long arms.
    • "We consider ourselves entitled to use our weapons against military facilities of those countries that allow the use of their weapons against our facilities."
    • Russian troops are successfully advancing in Ukraine in all directions. The enemy's use of long-range Western missiles is not able to prevent this offensive.
    The Oreshnik missile strike and Vladimir Putin's warning caused panic in Western countries, where they believed that Putin would not dare to retaliate and that Putin was only capable of drawing "red lines" on a map, and not punching a table.
     
  3. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Or it could cause Russia to start sending missiles into the United States. Wouldn't it be neat to get an all-out war with Russia just to benefit some foreign nation that doesn't matter to us?
     
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  4. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Just checking in since the OP was posted in September. Is Ukraine winning yet?
     
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  5. Professor Snape

    Professor Snape Banned

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    This is one of my most favorite unhinged theories that seems to have gone straight from anus to brain.

    When and where did bombing deep into civilian territory EVER make them surrender?

    Vietnam?
    Germany?
    Britain?
    China?
    Gaza?
    Donbas?
    Pearl Harbor?....okay...not civilian but...

    Oh! I know...Japan! Oh wait...they got bombed early on...Doolittle's raid..the Americans bombed an elementary school. People got mad.

    Oh....firebomb Tokyo, Hamamatsu, and a dozen other cities...nope. The war went on.

    Oh...it FINALLY worked when Hiroshima was bombed! Nope.
    Nagasaki did it then! Oh, wait. The Soviets began their invasion on the same day and Hirohito knew he did not want to be their prisoner, so he surrendered to the U.S. so NO....
    .....bombing deep within nations is a STUPID idea that never works....except to make the people more resolved to fight.

    And in case anyone has not noticed bombing Ukraine has not made them surrender. SMH

    I predict that bombing deep in Russia will make Putin more popular and will work as a great recruitment campaign for the Russian military. What a great idea!
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2024
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  6. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

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    Bombing deep inside Russia doesn't mean attacking civilians. It means military targets that were previously out of range.

    Firebombing Tokyo destroyed a bunch of aircraft-parts factories.

    Nuking Hiroshima killed thousands of Japanese soldiers and destroyed the headquarters in charge of repelling our invasion.

    Nuking Nagasaki crippled Japan's production of warships and torpedoes.
     
  7. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    That OP is virtually ignored therefore what he posts matters not because he is not a realist. I bring of Ukrainian heritage and have close relatives in Ukraine have cautioned those who are not factoring in the fact that Russia is an extremely large country with potentially massive resources. Plus this “new” administration returning to power soon is not a supporter of Ukraine or NATO or the EU. That is a big mistake for the long run and for the future of our military and economic security. That policy is myopic at best.
     
  8. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    So in other words, no. Ukraine is not winning.

    OK will check in later and see if Ukraine starts winning.
     
  9. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

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    Ukraine isn't losing either. And Russia certainly isn't winning.
     
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  10. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    That is sadly obvious even though Ukraine is making Russians pay a stiff price for every square meter they advance. Neither country is winning.
     
  11. freedom8

    freedom8 Well-Known Member

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    During the 3 years of war, so far, the US and the Europeans have supported Ukraine by sending weapons and ammunitions, but very inefficiently.

    But both failed to supply Ukraine with what it needed, when it needed.

    On the US side, the Biden administration was until about a month ago, forbidding Ukraine to use US-made weapons for hitting bases in Russia, even bases from which Russians are sendind missiles to targets in Ukraine.

    On the Europe side, they sent Ukraine a lot of money and promised a lot of ammunitions that never came or came (too) late.

    Today, the russian military has been severely weakened by the heroic Ukrainian resistance, and its economy has been weakened by its war effort and the effect of the international sanctions that are finally starting to bear fruit.


    If Trump has an ounce of intelligence, he can bring Russia to its knees within months, without sending a single GI to the battlefield, by merely sending the Ukrainians some of the surpus weapons, including F16 fighter jets that are sleeping in the US warehouses.
     
  12. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    That's funny but no, he couldn't bring Russia to it's knees with more weapons, no matter how many we send.
     
  13. freedom8

    freedom8 Well-Known Member

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    A war is not only fought on the battlefield. But maybe you're right.

    Maybe Trump is not able to handle Putin's Russia the same way Reagan handled USSR in the eighties, although US economy is booming, whilst Russia's is ailing. That requires some strength and some brains.
     
  14. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    The real trick here is to recognize that there is nothing for us to handle.
     
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  15. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Oh look, a call for NATO troops.

    Zelensky Calls on NATO Allies to Deploy Troops in Ukraine

    Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky called on NATO allies to deploy troops in his country to aid with the war effort after a Ukraine Defense Contact Group meeting in Ramstein, Germany, on January 9.
    In urging his allies to put their forces on the ground, he said he believed it would "force Russia into peace," the New Voice of Ukraine reported.
     

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