We should compulsory self-isolate for any viral symptom in UK.

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by James7, Mar 25, 2020.

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  1. James7

    James7 Active Member

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    At present in the UK the advice is to self-isolate only if you have symptoms of a dry cough and a high temperature.

    However the initial symptoms of COVID-19 are various and also it effects different people in different ways.

    So why don't we have compulsory self-isolation for ANY viral symptoms? I can't see what the problem with this is.

    You still hear stories of people out and about, even during the lockdown, who are coughing. On Sky News this morning we heard an account of a construction worker at work with a cough and how this was making others around him feel nervous. And I'm not surprised they felt this way.

    It's a fact that COVID-19 still spreads even during a lockdown. The lockdown simply slows things down. It's people with lesser symptoms, who don't have a temperature combined with a dry cough, who are spreading it.

    As far as I'm concerned it stunningly obvious. The statistics speak for themselves.
     
  2. HumbledPi

    HumbledPi Well-Known Member

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    From what I'm hearing, and I don't know if it's true or not, but it appears that one of the very first signs of coronavirus is the loss of smell and taste.
     
  3. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Note that is an "or" rather than an "and";
    Define "viral symptoms". Go too wide and generic and you'll end up with pretty much everyone unnecessarily self-isolating and list too many different symptoms you'll only end up confusing people. There is a careful balance to be struck here in trying to easily identify as many sufferers as possible without ending up with too many false positives.

    Understandable but that doesn't make them right. That's a classic example of the issue of defining too wide a set of symptoms as COVID-19 indicators.

    It was always going to be a case of slowing rather than stopping the spread. Even if there was a 100% guaranteed method of self-diagnosing, some people wouldn't do it right for various reasons or who wouldn't self-isolate successfully.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
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  4. James7

    James7 Active Member

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    I see the problem, however it's far better having too many false positives than too many false negatives which is what we appear to have at the moment.

    When I stated "viral symptoms", what I actually meant were any other general cold or flu'-like symptoms.
     
  5. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    I mean no disrespect, but if it's compulsory the authorities isolate you whether you want to self-isolate or not, like in Wuhan.
     
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  6. James7

    James7 Active Member

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    What I mean by compulsory/mandatory self-isolation, is that you will be required by law to self-isolate and that if you fail to do this, you could face fines or imprisonment.
     
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  7. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Too many in either direction is a problem which is why a balance needs to be struck. Given there are believed to be lots of completely asymptomatic infected, the only way to achieve what you're talking about would be for pretty much everyone to entirely self-isolate, which simply isn't viable.

    But many cold and flu symptoms (and certainly many things lay-people will wrongly identify as "viral symptoms") are specifically not symptoms of COVID-19.

    To put it bluntly, you clearly don't have sufficient basic understanding of the technical and clinical details to make a valid assessment here. That is why we have qualified experts in all sorts of different fields to advise us on this kind of thing. Asking questions is valid, indeed should be encouraged, but making bold contradictory assertions from a position of ignorance is indefensible.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  8. James7

    James7 Active Member

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    Yeah, like a balance being struck between inconveniencing people too much with coughs and letting the virus spread and making people sick.

    One of the common symptoms quoted for common colds and flu' is fever, i.e. a raised temperature. And what is the difference between a 'dry' cough and just an ordinary cough? Some opinion may be involved here.

    Also as I already pointed out, the initial symptoms of COVID-19 are various. Health experts have told us this on TV so don't give me this
    not a qualified expert BS.
     
  9. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It isn't abut inconvenience of individuals. I know a hospital that currently has around 20% of their staff unavailable because they're self isolating, that's difficult but manageable. If they lost 80% of staff to self isolation, the hospital basically shuts down, even for the most serious patients.

    Exactly, so the message needs to be carefully managed to achieve the best (or least worst) outcome. Your proposal would not achieve that.
     
  10. James7

    James7 Active Member

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    Where did you get a figure of 80% from? Also you're quoting one situation at one hospital.

    The facts are the virus still spreads even in a lockdown. If people are staying at home and practicing social distancing how does this happen? You hear too many cases of people out and about coughing and it shouldn't be happening.
     
  11. James7

    James7 Active Member

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    I was surprised to hear just how many people are not taking the coronavirus pandemic seriously.

    I was at a supermarket not long before the lockdown and saw an employee who was packing shelves cough loudly into his hands and then make a joke about it and was laughing until other staff members persuaded him to use some hand sanitiser!!

    Indeed two of my own relatives have told me they think the coronavirus outbreak is all hype and that it's no worse than the seasonal flu'. And I also saw a member of the public expressing the same opinion on BBC News 24.

    And I couldn't believe what was on the TV news this morning, that people are still being allowed to move home in the UK despite the lockdown! But how could that work? You have to avoid going outside as much as you can and businesses are shut, but it's still okay-ish to move house?!
     
  12. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As I have heard it loss of smell and taste appears to be a strong symptom among those who are asymptomatic. It is being considered it may be a tell tale sign that someone has the virus even if not showing symptoms.
     
  13. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We are already on a soft version of this. If police find you out and think you are out for the wrong reason they can force you home and give you a fine which doubles the second time and I think by the third can lead to jail.

    The other side of that is what they are going to define as 'not acceptable'. I heard the police had drones secretly filming people yesterday and had them on some news. There were people walking their dogs which I would think ought to be allowed as mutual exercise and a couple just enjoying a sunset of something. I heard there was a lot of shaming going on about them doing this...and I do not know if this is true but I also heard you were to be allowed out no more than for an hour to do your necessary - shopping, exercise, walking the dog etc.
     
  14. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Boris has the virus. I just got a message on my phone from BBC News telling me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2020
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  15. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    More information on how Boris is. It would appear with symptoms which appear mild for just now. Hopefully it will stay that way.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-boris-johnson-tests-positive-for-coronavirus
     
  16. HumbledPi

    HumbledPi Well-Known Member

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    NYPD counter-terror chief John Miller has been hospitalized with coronavirus symptoms. Every day, we're going to get shocking news, eventually we'll be numb to it. This pandemic is going to be the most destructive force globally on both human lives and economies than all our wars combined.

    I'm predicting that our hospitals are all going to fail, people will have to remain at home and do their best to try and survive. Boston University plans to graduate 192 fourth year medical students early in anticipation of the shortage of doctors.

    If people believe it can't get any worse, they're wrong. It's going to get much worse. Everyone should self-quarantine, avoid human contact outside the home. Assume that everything you take into your home from the outside may be contaminated with Covid-19. All the surfaces of food items you bring home from the grocery store should be wiped with a disinfectant, the virus can last on surfaces for three days. So just assume that every box of Cherrios and every bottle of Orange juice has the virus on it. You think this is 'overkill'? It's not. And, remember that everything you touch without a gloved hand may be contaminated. The people of China became so aware of contact contamination that they took steps beyond what we are doing. This video shows exactly how careful they became touching a surface like the button on an elevator.

     
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  17. James7

    James7 Active Member

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    In fact many cold and flu symptoms are symptoms of COVID-19 including sore throat, sneezing, runny nose, fever, fatigue and cough:


    [​IMG]
     
  18. James7

    James7 Active Member

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    At the moment the instruction on self-isolation is only being offered as 'advice' and 'guidance'.

    The government's attitude is far too laissez-faire.
     
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  19. James7

    James7 Active Member

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    Closing London underground stations and restricting the number of trains running only leads to significant over-crowding for the essential workers who need to get to work. This massively increases the risk of viral transmission.

    Another disastrous policy from the government.
     
  20. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, you are right about needing to wipe you groceries though I am not so sure I would want to do carboard and luckily carboard apparently does not hold the virus well.

    One more tip I got from the guy I have been following who has been extremely good at working things out. Grow as many veg as you can.
     
  21. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Really. Even if it is, the fact that you can be fined if it is believed you are out and about for no reason remains both in Scotland and England. There were a few days needed to get that legal - possibly Monday.
     
  22. HumbledPi

    HumbledPi Well-Known Member

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    The UK has been taking a more lackadaisical approach and that's extremely alarming. Their efforts to convince people to self-quarantine has stepped up since the numbers of new cases surged dramatically. Last week, Boris Johnson announced measures to encourage the elderly and those most at risk to stay at home, as well as for entire families to self-isolate if any member shows any symptoms and that's NOT ENOUGH!!

    Everyone should be self-quarantining, not only the elderly or those with symptoms. It's the only way to slow transmission, nothing else will do it.
     
  23. James7

    James7 Active Member

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    What are we meant to think when the very people telling us to stay at home and rigorously practice social distancing catch it themselves? I am of course referring to the PM and the Health Secretary.

    The government has done far too little and far too late.

    Even with the advice given to self-isolate, the virus has continued to spread exponentially and not enough explanation has been given by the health experts as to why the cases have continued to grow. It's as if the attitude was, "Oh it's just something that happens".
     
  24. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    It really is something that just happened. There was no purchase order or bill of lading to ship vials of COVID-19 and to then be deliberately spread it amongst the public by mosquito trucks.

    At best maybe the curve can be flattened, and at the very best effective treatments will be found almost immediately.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2020
  25. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I was watching my usual update last night and he came out with some interesting information which may have been the Governments position. Someone from a University, could have been Oxford came out with a very strange proposal. He believed that the virus had been circulating in the UK since January and that half of the people already had had it. He believed almost everyone got it so mild they did not notice and hardly anyone was affected to a serious degree. It seems this went with their idea of 'Herd Immunity' and a lot of it would appear to be based in part on the belief that China was not being honest.

    I think it was Italy that got them to see they had made a big mistake.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2020

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