What Bill Clinton and Donald Trump taught me about morality.

What Bill Clinton and Donald Trump taught me about morality.

Starting with Clinton. I was a Fox News viewer and conservative radio listener during the Clinton administration and I thought he was a lying snake in the grass. Yet after multiple scandals throughout his time in office I was continually shocked by his supporters refusal to hold him accountable.

Donald Trump. For nearly the past decade I have watched Trump supporters refuse to hold him accountable much to my dismay scandal after scandal. During the Trump era I have been an independent.

Lesson learned.

When morality stands in the way of our sense of security during insecure times we tend to move the moral goalpost to a more convenient position then deny doing so. When it comes to the opposition we do not allow them the privilege of relocating their own moral goalpost and instead point out their hypocrisy while ignoring our own.

We love morality when it is convenient and easily adhered to. For example I will never rape anyone, which is easy when you see it as abhorrent as I do. We can even do the moral thing now and again when it is inconvenient such as the time I crashed a check and was given $100 too much. I really could have used the extra money, but my conscience wouldn’t allow it. Yet how many times have I done the immoral thing then just relabeled it moral? I don’t know but I am knowledgeable enough about psychology to know that we suck at such assessments, so I just assume it is a lot.

In politics, those that stick to their moral principles refusing to join the tribe in moving the goalpost will find themselves unwelcome by the tribe that demands conformity and unyielding loyalty.

Seems to me that politics is evil by its nature as it demands wishy washy morals that serve political expediency as opposed to objective moral standards that form a solid bedrock for a Nation to be founded upon.

P.S. This thread is not about litigating past or present scandals thus I will not address them as there is no shortage of those types of threads already. My focus is on how political loyalty is corrupting to our espoused morals and leads us to do evil while perceiving it as good.

 

@robini123

So where does Obama and Biden fit in?

 

To some they are the greater evil, to others they are the lesser, to some they are good and to others both are seem as evil. As I have not supported Obama, Biden nor Harris that should tell you enough about my thoughts on them. I used President Clinton and President Trump as both were impeached and both lie their assess off more than most, in my subjective view anyway. When it comes to the lies of Presidents and Presidential candidates, they are all fountains of half truths and outright lies. Not a pillar of morality among them. I blame we the people for that as it is we that place them in power all to then turn the blind eye when they do something morally objectionable.

 

@robini123

"both lie their assess off more than most,"
that describes Biden and Obama more than any other..

 

They don't.

 

Here's the way I see it -- Most people who seek political office are arrogant narcissists who think they are much smarter than the 'folks'. They have a 'I want to rule' complex. Thus, they will never admit being wrong or making a mistake. They lie because they think most 'folks' are ignorant. So, they think they can talk 'pretty' and leave you in the dust wondering what they said. Having explained most politicians, I will say there are some better as POTUS than others simply because of their policies for the country. We have a Congress and a Supreme Court to help with the ruling. I think as long as there is some different thinking of the three branches of government it's good for the USA.

 

And the fact that they get elected proves them right.

 

More is subjective and if lying is wrong for one it is wrong for all. Democrats and Republicans need to get their own houses in order before they help their brothers and sisters in the other tribe address their own hypocrisy and immorality. The lesser evil is still evil. I say reject evil rather than standing with the subjectively arrived at lesser evil.

 

From my study of psychology and my much more limited study of political science it seems that psychopaths and narcissists are disproportionately represented in politics vs instances of psychopathy/narcissism in the general public. Makes sense that those that crave power over others would be disproportionately drawn to politics.

Yet who bears the greater responsibility, we the people that vote for morally bankrupt leaders or the morally bankrupt politicians themselves? In a democracy I would argue the former is primarily to blame.

 

I look for morality in friends, bosses and babysitters. I look for policy in politicians.

 

Wouldn’t everyone that believes they should be president be a narcissist? Morality has many definitions. We are all immoral in someone’s eyes.

 

This!!!

 

And sometimes they are elected with less than half of all the votes.

 

With all due respect most of the Trump scandals are in whole or in part fiction.

 

Why?

 

Because I read them and studied them. The only real question about any of the New York convictions is how far up the judicial food chain they have to go for they are overturned on appeal. I'd be surprised if any of them get much beyond the state of New York before they are overturned.

 

Since you have condemned Trump in your opening post, you should bear in mind that Harris slept with a 60 year old married man, who was a major power in the California House of Representatives, when she was less than half his age to get her first big boost in politics.

 

Show me an honest candidate for President, and I will show you a loser. Playing fast and loose and stretching reality is a prerequisite to winning. The only people you ever see running in primaries that are honest tell it like it is types, are people that know they have no chance of winning.

It is as simple as that.

 

Clinton's scandals were real, self evident and many. Trump's scandals are predominately made up.

 

Why look for morality in one but not in the other? Why is morality important in one but not the other?

 

Yet some morals are shared by both sides, like lying for example. Each goes to great lengths to point out the lies of the other while doing all they can to rationalize away their own. For those that are Christian lying is addressed in one of the Ten Commandments yet Christians lie like everyone else. It seems to me that the problem is not the subjectivity of morality, but how it is conveniently applied.

 

Why look for morality in “friends, bosses and babysitters” but not in politicians? Why is morality important in one but not the other?

 

Never supported a Democrat and likely never will. Both sides are corrupt and not worthy of my vote.

 

I completely agree! Yet why is it that way? Why do we espouse good moral values, even teaching our young all to then make hypocrites of ourselves by voting for morally bankrupt politicians? I know the answer to that and would not surprise me if you do too. But how many people even consider such questions let alone come to the depressing conclusion about how messed up human nature is. Most will go through life in blissful ignorance thinking that they are in the side of good when both sides are morally bankrupt.

 

Morality is not the same for everyone. Stealing is considered immoral until one is elected to public office. The real issue for me is their ability to impose their will on society. Government should be reduced to an absolute minimum. That way, moral politicians with good intentions can't do as much damage.