What measures are states taking to reduce high rates of firearm fatalities?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Natty Bumpo, May 17, 2023.

  1. Texan

    Texan Well-Known Member

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    The criminal who decides to threaten the lives of others decides that they should be killed.
     
  2. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    So you are arguing with me for agreeing with the stats? that means i don't understand?

    i am just pointing out that a 6.1 murder rate in Cali is 2300 people getting murdered and a murder rate of 23.0 in Alaska is 171 people being murdered. That is exactly what these stats say. if you disagree with me you disagree with the stats.

    so less strict gun laws don't seem to indicate more people murdered. because 171 is less than 2300.

    Sorry you disagree with the math.
     
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  3. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Absolutly agree. i can sit in a room with 5000 guns and i will be irrefutably 100% safe from ever being shot by them.

    Sorry to spoil your day but that is 100% caused by people and 0% caused by guns. If you can show me any instance of a gun flying around of it's own accord or using demonic possession to control the thoughts of the shooter you won't have mad the most ridiculous argument ever.

    I have explained this to you before. There is no such thing as gun deaths. guns aren't alive and they cannot die.
    There is no such thing as firearm homicide. Firearms are just objects and therefore cannot commit any acts such as homicide.
    Firearms cannot commit suicide. so there is no such thing as firearm suicide.
    What is a school shooting?
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2023
  4. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    There has never been a firearm fatality in human history. People commit murder using weapons like firearms but that isn't an artifact of the firearm it is an artifact of the person. Attempting to blame an object for human behavior is how people fail to get anywhere with this discussion.

    I am sorry you wasted your time.
     
  5. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    Denial can prevent acknowledging empirical data that does not comport with one's ideological dogma.

    The striking correlation of states with permissive gun laws and high rates of firearm fatalities vs states with effective gun policies and much lower rates of firearm fatalities will, unfortunately, endure unless the paranoid regulation-phobia can be overcome.

    If the citizens of Mississippi, Alabama. Louisiana, etc. believe their politicians when they plead impotence in the face of the gun carnage, and settle for copious discharges of "thoughts and prayers," there is no reason to expect progress in those states.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2023
  6. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    The United States is a nation of laws, not self-appointed vigilante executioners.

    What measures are states with obscenely-high rates of firearm fatalities taking to reduce their gun carnage?
     
  7. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    Self-inflicted firearm fatalities account for over half of the gun deaths in America. Don't get any ideas while sitting in your room.

    If you believe that a person pointing his finger at someone and saying, "Bang, bang!" has the same consequences as wielding a shooty, you are mistaken.
    As a comparison of the empirical data of states confirms, sensible regulation, supported by most Americans, results in far fewer firearm fatalities that policies of permissiveness.

    (If you want to similarly argue that motorists should not have to qualify for driver's licenses because 0% of motor vehicles kill people, good luck with that.)
     
  8. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    I’m sorry dogma prevents you from acknowledging the facts I’ve presented. I’m sorry you have cherry picked only data that supports your biases.

    If only CA would model their gun homicide and assault prevention on Wyoming’s clearly superior approach many lives could be saved!

    Why not try it? Observed correlation in selected cases is good enough reason, even with known observed cases of inverse correlation, right?

    Dogma indeed. :)
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2023
  9. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    If you can't accept the proposition that states with permissive firearm laws might lower their obscenely high rates of firearm fatalities by adopting the far more successful policies of the states with the lowest rates of firearm fatalities, then what do you anticipate regarding their obscenely high rates of firearm fatalities? Do you expect them to plummet if they do nothing?

    Firearm Mortality by State (2021)

    California: 9.0

    Wyoming: 26.1
     
  10. independentthinker

    independentthinker Banned

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    What's happening, in fact, is that liberal policies continue making the situation worse by not keeping criminals locked up or not locking them up at all, sometimes releasing them with no bail. It is absolutely insane to think you can let criminals run around loose and keep guns out of their hands.
     
  11. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    Vermont's low fatality rate, loose gun gun laws and high per capita gun ownership destroys your argument.
     
  12. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    The empirical reality is that the firearm fatality rates of states with permissive firearm laws are far higher:
    1. Alaska - 23.0 per 100,000 people
    2. Alabama - 21.4 per 100,000 people
    3. Louisiana - 21.2 per 100,000 people
    4. Mississippi - 19.8 per 100,000 people
    5. Oklahoma - 19.6 per 100,000 people
    vs
    1. Massachusetts (3.4)
    2. New York (3.9)
    3. New Jersey (4.1)
    4. Hawaii (4.4)
    5. Rhode Island (4.6)
    If you are claiming that Alaska, Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Oklahoma have mush higher rates of firearm fatalities because they don't keep criminals locked up or do not lock them up at all, or release them with no bail, why do Alaska, Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Oklahoma do that?
     
  13. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    I'm not arguing. I'm asking
    What measures are states taking to reduce high rates of firearm fatalities?
    The 10 states with the highest rates of gun death:
    1. Alaska - 23.0 per 100,000 people
    2. Alabama - 21.4 per 100,000 people
    3. Louisiana - 21.2 per 100,000 people
    4. Mississippi - 19.8 per 100,000 people
    5. Oklahoma - 19.6 per 100,000 people
    6. Montana - 19.0 per 100,000 people
    7. Missouri - 18.8 per 100,000 people
    8. New Mexico - 18.2 per 100,000 people
    9. Arkansas - 17.7 per 100,000 people
    10. South Carolina - 17.7 per 100,000 people

     
  14. Green Man

    Green Man Banned

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    You never answered my question Natty Bumpo.

    I will assume you are including suicides, self defense, and firearm malfunctions under "gun deaths".

    While you go comparing "gun deaths" in various states it might be well to compare those numbers to all suicides in a particular state. Some geographical areas have high suicide rates such as Alaska. Also, you can remove self-defense "gun deaths" which is a legitimate use of a firearm. This leaves us with murders and firearm malfunction.

    Of course the only dangerous firearm is one that is faulty and may injure or kill the user. The murders have nothing to do with dangerous guns as every single murder ever committed was done by a dangerous person-Not a dangerous gun.

    So how many guns deaths from firearm malfunction or user negligence last year? Maybe a dozen?
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2023
  15. independentthinker

    independentthinker Banned

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    Cities run by democrats account for almost 100% of the crime, due to the liberal policies in those blue cities.
     
  16. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    California has the strictest gun laws in the nation. Wyoming has the second most permissive gun laws in the nation. And….

    Firearm homicide rate
    Wyoming 2.7/100,000
    California 3.9/100,000

    Firearm assault rate
    Wyoming 4.2/100,000
    California 8.9/100,000

    Again, is California going to do nothing to attempt to bring their firearm murder and assault rate down to the more reasonable level that Wyoming has? What specific gun law in CA would solve the suicide problem in WY? Be specific.

    Your argument seems to be that strict gun laws prevent suicide but increase firearm murders and assaults.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2023
  17. Texan

    Texan Well-Known Member

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    I'm not risking my safety or my family's safety to spare someone threatening us with any weapon or breaking Into my home or occupied car with the possibility of having a weapon. The law where I live backs me up and a criminal is perfectly safe unless he chooses to violate the rights of others.

    I accept my responsibility to not allow collateral damage and realize I will be held responsible if I hurt an innocent person. I even have a lawyer on retainer just in case. I have studied Texas gun laws and am very careful to stay within the law where my guns are involved.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2023
  18. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    I don't argue.

    When I ask what, if anything, states with the highest rates of firearm fatalities are doing to reduce the gun carnage in their states, I note the stark correspondence between firearm permissiveness and firearm fatalities:

    States with the highest rates of firearm fatalities​
    1. Alaska - 23.0 per 100,000 people
    2. Alabama - 21.4 per 100,000 people
    3. Louisiana - 21.2 per 100,000 people
    4. Mississippi - 19.8 per 100,000 people
    5. Oklahoma - 19.6 per 100,000 people
    States with the lowest rate of firearm fatalities:​
    1. Massachusetts 3.4 per 1000,000 people
    2. New York 3.9 per 1000,000 people
    3. New Jersey 4.1 per 1000,000 people
    4. Hawaii 4.4 per 1000,000 people
    5. Rhode Island 4.6 per 1000,000 people
    Wyoming (ranked 13th) has a firearm mortality rate of 17.5 per 100,000 people.
    [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/m...ere-does-your-state-fall/ss-AA1boQsZ#image=15]

    California (ranked 43rd) has a firearm mortality rate of 7.9 per 100,000 people.
    [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/m...ere-does-your-state-fall/ss-AA1boQsZ#image=45]
     
  19. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    I believe those states are doing whatever they can to make sure more people get more firearms.
    That will reduce shootings and deaths. The assumption is, if everyone can kill the person next to them, then no one will kill the person next to them.
    Or something along those lines.
     
  20. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully more policing, because that's the only solution. That's up to those blue cities in those states, because that's where a majority of the crimes are happening.
     
  21. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    All valid statistics. I’ve never disputed the stats. But you don’t seem to be able to grasp the nuance.

    Each state should be addressing the problem in their state. I’ll ask again, why should Wyoming implement an assault weapons ban to fight suicide? Why aren’t you advocating for California to do whatever it is Wyoming is doing to keep firearm homicides and assaults rates low? Why does California that has had an assault weapons ban for decades have mass shooting rates nearly six times those of Alaska? What CA gun law would solve the Alaska Native men’s suicide rate (all suicide methods, about half statistically firearms) of 140/100,000?

    There seems to be a prevailing attitude that if all states had gun laws like CA all firearm violence problems would be solved. It’s not that simple.
     
  22. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    Bad aim will be eradicated from America, on the way to extinction.

    Screen Shot 2022-06-07 at 7.13.07 AM.png
     
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  23. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    Use of deadly force in self defense predates the nation itself. QQ more.
     
  24. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    You're including the suicides o wise and well regarded one. We don't include the suicides when talking about crimes.
     
  25. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    The only thing missing in that pic are their MAGA hats.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2023

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