What REALLY caused the economic crisis, inflation,...

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, Apr 17, 2024.

  1. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Slowly, policy by Biden has been bringing us out from the verge of a recession in which the Trump regime put us. But people don't yet know the cause. Some might think it was the pandemic. They would be wrong.

    Let's take a look...

    In 2025, the bottom 60% of average middle income household will receive an average of $500 benefits in tax cuts. The average for the top 1% will be over $60,000. The top 1% and the top 5% more than triple the tax cuts for the bottom 60% Those $500 will go back into the economy in the form of goods or services that the middle class consumes, ... more demand, which benefits businesses and stimulates the economy. More production, more jobs, more wealth for the whole country. Historically, neither the Bush tax cuts, nor the Trump cuts for the rich produce any economic growth.

    But they DID produce trillions in debt. The inflation, the problems in the economy that you are seeing now, were primarily caused by these. More so than by the pandemic. They have been ameliorated by the Biden administration. But any analysis will show the REAL cause.

    None of this has been explained to the American people. But it WILL be during the campaign. So there will be two fronts in which Biden will be making progress. One is the information front. Many of the billions in campaign donations that Biden has received will be spent explaining this to the American people. But the other front for improving Biden's numbers could be the success in bringing us out. For a while now wage increase has been outpacing inflation. This, of course, takes quite a bit of time to permeate into what most people perceive. For example, you might see it quicker if you change jobs. Not always will somebody who has worked twenty years in the same company will see a salary increase that compensates for inflation this quickly. But they will see it. And then the topic will no longer be a campaign issue.
     
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  2. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    What REALLY caused the economic crisis, inflation,...

    Expansion of the money supply. That has slowed recently and thankfully.
     
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  3. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Pros and Cons

    Pros; Many economists are now saying that Biden’s big spending packages, such as infrastructure have prevented a hard landing.

    Cons; Inflationary
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2024
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  4. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Fake News. The COVID recession was over in April, 2020, 9 months before Bribed Joe took over and set the economy on fire with all his inflationary debt spending.

    [​IMG]
    More fake news.
    In the first 12 quarters under Bribed Joe, real hourly compensation has DROPPED 4.9%
    In the last 12 quarters under Trump, real hourly compensation GREW by 10%

    [​IMG]
    Some people are so sure that if they just run a coordinated disinformation attack on the American People, with the Lying Fake news agreeing with the lying Talking Heads and the Democrat Candidates that they can make people think that gas prices aren't way up, that electricity prices aren't way up, that rents haven't skyrocketed, that mortgage interest for those that have recently taken out a loan are through the roof, that a $100 worth of food now fits in two sacks, that a modest working person's lunch is now $20/day? You guys are simply amazing.

    Why do you think Trump has the edge in the polls? Why do you think that so many Democrats are reduced to lawfare, speech suppression, and ballot stripping?

    'The scenario of a Democratic district attorney, Manhattan’s Alvin Bragg, putting Trump on trial amid a presidential campaign is striking in part because of a new survey showing a plurality of the public believing the Trump presidency was better for America than the presidency of Trump’s opponent, the sitting President Joe Biden.'

    People aren't fooled. All this lying about what an economic wunderkind Bribed Joe is, is just destroying their own credibility.

    'The New York Times-Siena poll asked these two questions: “Do you generally remember the years that Donald Trump was president as mostly good years for America, mostly bad years for America, or not really good or bad?” and “Do you think the years that Joe Biden has been president have been mostly good years for America, mostly bad years for America, or not really good or bad?”'

    How do you think they answered?

    'Trump had a solid advantage in voters’ recollections, with 42% saying his presidential years were mostly good years for America, while just 25% said Biden’s presidential years have been mostly good for America. Trump also had a solid advantage on the other side of the answer, with 33% saying his presidential years were mostly bad for America, while a much larger 46% said Biden’s presidential years have been mostly bad for America.'

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/daily-memo/2966991/a-striking-contrast-on-trump-trial-day/

    Biden stumbles from one screw up to the next, with an army of folks "messaging", trying to claim that he's simply the best ever. We've had enough of the 'messaging' which is a nice way of say "pack of lies". In exchange for going back to rising wages, rising living standards, and no new wars, I can ignore Trump's tweets if I can't have RFK.

    Bribed Joe gets whisked away by the Easter Bunny when Bribed Joe is asked about Afghanistan Bug out.

     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2024
  5. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Snake oil news!

    You forgot the following facts;

    Agreement to cut oil production by 10 million barrels per day, and then, down to 6 million bpd til April 2022. INFLATIONARY!

    2020’s $1 trillion excess saving, and spent in 2021 during a period when the supply chain was severely disrupted, thus, INFLATIONARY.

    Biden inherited a huge reduction of refining capacity, from 18.9 million bpd to 18.1 million bpd, and a low utilization rate, thus, INFLATIONARY when demand for gasoline and diesel exceeded supply.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2024
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  6. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The tax revenue initially dipped slightly because of the tax rate cut, but the following year, it was growing at a greater rate than before the tax rate cut. However, government spending went up which resulted in larger deficits. The problem is not tax revenue. The problem is that our government spends too much money.

    Those who pay more taxes also get the largest tax cuts which is exactly like it should be

    You have just identified one of the problems with democrats. You tend to believe that all income belongs to the government and the government generously allows to keep part of it. Republicans know the income belongs to the citizens and the government is should only receive that which is required to run the government efficiently.
     
  7. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Economics is a collection of opinions. The entire thing is pretty useless. Common sense and the economic law of supply and demand say that creating money dilutes the value of all the existing money. Increase supply, reduce value. Yes, inflationary. It is hard for my common sense to believe that government can fix an economic problem by devaluing the currency. It makes no sense but government, of course, will tell you that it does. Government works from a base of politics and self interest. Add salt to what it says.
     
  8. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Reference to the over $200 billion of fraudulent PPP loans, and overall, the $900 billion forgivable loans disbursed under Trump’s watch.

    Would it be inflationary if you were to borrow $200 billion from your local bank, name Uncle Sam has your guarantor, and then, go on a spending spree?
     
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  9. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Only if government didn't have funds to cover the loan but covered it anyway. I do agree that PPP loans were absolutely stupid and well beyond the appropriate role of federal government.
     
  10. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    You are correct in that expansion of the money supply is ALWAYS a cause for inflation. I should have said I was referring to the DEBT crisis.
     
  11. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    The debt was created by Trump policies. Inflation was caused both by Biden's policies that were NECESSARY to avert the crisis on the verge of which Trump left us, as well as by Trump's own spending and tax cuts for the rich that led to... the crisis that Biden had to avert.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2024
  12. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    That's a slogan. But not a worthwhile statement to analyze the problem. Our government spends what Congress approves. If you believe there is something we shouldn't spend on, and you want to make a significant statement, you tell us WHAT that is. Otherwise it's of little use.

    The fact is that, while tax cuts for the middle class produce wealth, tax cuts for the rich don't. They tend more to create financial crisis. So the middle class ends up paying with THEIR tax cuts (and more) for the billionaires' tax cuts. Be it in the form of inflation, or loss of value to their assets, or loss of services, or... maybe even more taxes. We need to stop doing that. But it's what Trump promises to KEEP doing.

    Getting a $1000 check you didn't expect in the mail sounds great. But I'm sure most people in the middle class, if given a choice, would prefer not to be paying for just about everything almost double what they paid before they got that check.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2024
  13. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is a fact. Revenue went up slightly more than previously. It worked just like it was supposed to. It is also a fact that the government spent more and we ended up with a higher debt.

    I blame republicans as much as democrats. Our government spends too much money on pork which benefits only a few people.
     
  14. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Point is you blaming anybody is of little use when you don't explain what you are blaming them FOR. Anybody can repeat vague talking points. But "the government spends too much" is just a slogan. It's like "America Runs on Dunkin”. Catchy... but it doesn't actually mean anything.

    If there is one thing that benefits only few people, that's tax cuts for billionaires. It also a major (THE major?) contributor to our deficit. So, on top of benefitting only a few people, they also harm A LOT of people.
     
  15. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Fake News. Biden's wild spending after the COVID disinflationary pulse was over, lit the hell fires of inflation just as Clinton's Treasury Secretary warned that they would.

    Another coordinated disinformation assault on the American People isn't going to help Inflationary Joe.

    upload_2024-4-18_7-33-30.png
     
  16. independentthinker

    independentthinker Banned

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    Biden and the left's policies. At least you understand that the country has gone to pot under Biden. Baby steps.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2024
  17. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is not that complicated. The government spends more than it brings in. We are on the verge of defaulting on our debts because the interest itself is approaching the revenue.
    That is a difference in attitude towards the government. The rich already pay the majority of the taxes. You believe that the wealthy should pay more taxes just because they can. That is fundamentally wrong. By that logic, a wealthy person should have to pay more for everything he buys, just because he can.
     
  18. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    For people who don’t know economy primitive arguments make a lot of sense, for example:
    Tax rich people, reduce taxes on middle class, it will reduce debt and jump start economy
    Or
    Cut taxes on rich people because they know the best how to invest money and to improve economy
    Or
    Trump creates recession and Biden is saving us
    Or
    It is Biden fault that prices in the US skyrocketed, but in 2024 Trump will fix everything
    Etc.

    I am not economist, after reading few books – I envy poor educated - they know everything!

    upload_2024-4-18_18-32-39.png
     
  19. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    So you wrote all this to tell us that you don't know anything about the economy and that you read few books so you didn't actually understand it? That was pretty anti-climatic. The first sentence hinted that we should brace for an informed rebuttal of the OP.

    Whop whop whop... [insert sad trombone sound here]
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2024
  20. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Which does not happen and indeed cannot happen if Bribed Joe just continues onward with the trump energy policies.
     
  21. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, I noticed you have very creative way to understand written text, so let me repeat more clearly:
    Economy is very complicated ‘science’, were even experienced economists having doubts predicting or explaining past events, problems which poorly educated obviously don’t have.
    Poorly educated Republican knows that Biden destroyed the great American economy Trump created.
    Poorly educated Democrat knows that Biden repaired American economy which Trump destroyed.

    Whop whop whop...
     
  22. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

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    COVID and the inflation it caused is what started it, then it's been egged on by corporations raising prices for profit under the cover of inflation and "higher expenses". The only companies in the business world getting the shaft are the companies at the end of the chain. The supermarkets, department stores, convenience stores, etc etc. All the companies in the supply chain have bumped up their prices because they can, but the customer facing businesses at the end of the line face revolt or decreased customers if they raise their prices too much. So they get the shaft on the fake cost increases, plus all the blame from the consumer since they are the visible portion of the supply chain. That's why you have Joe Biden's blaming gas stations for high gas prices.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2024
  23. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As usual we can argue what cased the inflation, but whose arguments are true? Here is an interesting article about inflation - I am not economist, so I am not taking sides:

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/07/the-greedflation-debate-is-deeply-confused.html
     
  24. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Economy is a very complicated science. Astrophysics is also a complicated science. But anybody with an average intelligence and average education can understand how gravity affects planetary motion. In the same way, anybody with an average education and average intelligence can understand what causes the national debt to rise.

    I understand you're having trouble with it, but the OP might help.... We know this happens. It's why we open these threads.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2024
  25. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As I mentioned before, you have a very creative way of understanding written text. I didn't write "Economy is a very complicated science"; I wrote "Economy is a very complicated 'science'."

    Why did I write "science" and not science? Because there is a significant difference between astrophysics and economics. Communist countries had both astrophysicists and economists. There was almost total agreement between Soviet and Western astrophysicists, but huge disagreements between economists. Why? Because the economy is not a science, it is a 'science.'

    Even today, there is disagreement among economists about whether inflation is the fault of Biden, Trump, or some other event. And there is an even bigger disagreement on the cause of inflation between poorly educated Democrats and poorly educated Republicans.
     

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