Where Progressives are going with the statue removals

Some might have seen the timeline I've posted on numerous occasions, others I'm sure haven't -- but I like to remind people every opportunity I get, especially when neo-confeds pin the start of the CW all on Lincoln, or those who peg Sumter as ground zero, or "the first act" --- this is what happened even before the South fired on the Star of the West in early January, when Buchanan was still president:
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"December 20, 1860. South Carolina secedes from the Union.

On that same day William T. Sherman says to his friends in the South, "You, you people of the South, believe there can be such a thing as peaceable secession. You don't know what you are doing. I know there can be no such thing...If you will have it, the North must fight you for its own preservation. Yes, South Carolina has by the act precipitated war..."

December 27, 1860. The first Federal property to fall into South Carolina hands is the U.S. revenue cutter William Aiken turned over to secessionists by its commander, Capt. N. L. Coste, who did not resign his commission and therefore was in violation of his oath of office. The crew left the ship and went North.

Castle Pickney was seized by South Carolina militia and a problem arose: were the two Federal soldiers captured in the fort to be considered prisoners of war? If so, it would imply that there was in fact, a WAR. Following a lengthy discussion, the one Federal officer was allowed to go to Ft. Sumter while a sergeant and his family were given safe conduct to remain in their quarters at the fort.

What was significant was that the secessionists now held, for the first time, a U.S. fort. Union officer Abner Doubleday called it "the first overt act of the Secessionists against the Sovereignty of the United States."

Fort Moultrie is also occupied by South Carolina militia on this day, after the fort was abandoned by Major Anderson and Federal troops on December 26, 1860, who relocated to Ft. Sumter during the night.

December 28, 1860. A detachment of South Carolina militia enters and takes control of Fort Johnson. Three out of four Federal forts have been seized and are now under the control of South Carolina militia troops.

January 3, 1861. The War Department cancelled plans to ship guns from Pittsburgh to the forts in the South. Former Secretary of War Floyd, who resigned and went South, had been shipping weapons and large guns South for the past several months to help build up the Southern arsenals.

January 4, 1861. Even though it had not yet seceded from the Union, Alabama troops seize the U.S. arsenal at Mt. Vernon, Ala.

January 5, 1861. Even though it STILL has not yet seceded from the Union, Alabama troops seizes Fort Morgan and Gaines which protect the harbor at Mobile.

January 6, 1861. Even though it has not yet seceded from the Union, Florida troops seize the Federal arsenal at Apalachiocola.

January 7, 1861. Even though it has STILL not seceded from the Union, Florida troops seize Fort Marion at St. Augustine.

January 9, 1861. On this day, Senators Judah P. Benjamin and John Slidell of Louisiana telegraphed Gov. Moore of that state (which had not yet seceded from the Union), that Federal gunboats were secretly bringing supplies to the forts at the mouth of the Mississippi River. Both men had yet to resign from the Senate. Gov. Moore ordered Braxton Bragg and 500 troops to seize the forts and the United States arsenal at Baton Rouge.

---> On this same day, the Star of the West attempted to resupply Fort Sumter but was fired on by a masked battery from Morris Island and then by guns from Fort Moultrie. In spite of the fact the ship was flying two United States flags, the ship was repeatedly fired on.

 

I was aware of their various illegal seizures of US property, and of their attack upon the merchant ship in January.

If they had accepted Lincoln's public declaration not to interfere with their slavish ways, a spot of bother would have been avoided.

 

I figured you would be one familiar with the history to the run up of the war.

I do like to take opportunities like this to remind others though - especially the Lost Causers who infest these threads who don't seem to be aware of the aggressive acts of the slavers well before ole Abe took office.

 

I'm also reminded of this great Lincoln quote --from early on in the 1860 presidential campaign,

when the South was harrumphing about how if they didn't get their way they would take their marbles and go home, (as they had been for years) -- he pegged them well:

"You will not abide the election of a Republican president!

In that supposed event, you say, you will destroy the Union; and then, you say, the great crime of having destroyed it will be upon us!

That is cool. A highwayman holds a pistol to my ear, and mutters through his teeth, 'Stand and deliver, or I shall kill you, and then you will be a murderer!'"
[Cooper - Union Speech]

 

The south hit walls. And they had to recover property since they abandoned the union. Voters approved all of that. Abe invaded. Illegally so. And due to his invasion, more than 630,000 lost their life.

 

Some of you probably also endorse the King retaining his forts though General Washington went to war with the King. And you are so blind you think the South must keep forts supporting the north on the soil of the South since you can't imagine this particular outrage the South had to defend itself from. You learned your Yankee history too well and forgot the history of the South.

 

And then there are some old Lost Causers who are hopeless...

 

Look: Levying war against the US is treason. There is no debate about this. It is.


Treason against the United States shall consist in levying war against them.

Did our Founders have representation? No. That was the Casus belli of the Revolutionary war. And even as our Founders were signing the DoI, they knew their acts were treasonous.

Did the south have representation -- and this thing called a ballot box? Why yes, yes they did. *That* in a republic, is how change is affected.

Let's ask one of Washington's contemporaries, that patriotic rebel Sam Adams -- what he thought about rebellion when The People have representation:


"Rebellion against a king may be pardoned, or lightly punished, but the man who dares to rebel against the laws of a republic ought to suffer death. " -Samuel Adams

 

A bit more on West Point CW history, which many consider the shots in early January to be the unofficial start of the war.

So too, the Citadel and other scholars:

152nd anniversary of the Star of the West Jan. 9, 2013, marks the 152nd anniversary of the firing on the Union supply ship the Star of the West.

"On Jan. 9, 1861, Citadel cadets manning an artillery battery on Morris Island off the coast of South Carolina fired at the federal steamship the Star of the West to prevent it from reaching Fort Sumter. The ship was carrying supplies and 200 federal troops dispatched by President Buchanan to reinforce Union forces at the fort.

In 1861, there were between 40 and 50 cadets on Morris Island at the time of the firing on the Star of the West.

"Many scholars consider the firing on the Star of the West to be the first hostile shots of the Civil War even though the attack on Fort Sumter did not begin until April 12, 1861."
...
In 2011, cadets from The Citadel Military Living History Society held a reenactment of the firing on Star of the West. Dressed in period uniforms and carrying reproductions of the cannons and muskets used in 1861, the cadets were part of Charleston's 150th anniversary of the Civil War."

152nd anniversary of the Star of the West - The Citadel - Charleston, SC

 

I see the slave issue as did General George Washington saw it. Now do you want to remove all statues to Washington?

I of course mean this as were I then alive rather than today. Today there is no way any of us would support slavery.

 

paranoid hysteria. really getting rid of the monuments is just a step towards civility

"Al Sharpton and several others have already expressed a desire to get rid of the Jefferson memorial. " this comment is a lie

 

I can readily understand why they much prefer to embrace their myth, but facts are formidable impediments.

 

we should get the confederacy to pay for the wall with Mexico.

 

the distinction is keep monuments to Americans, get rid of monuments to traitors.

 

630,000 lost their lives because southerners were too stupid to realize they had a losing hand.

 

I do not pretend to channel George Washington, and since he never turned on the United States, never rejected the Constitution of the United States, never fought against the United States, and never killed soldiers and sailors of the United States, I have no idea why you find monuments to him on public land in the United States offensive, but that is your right, of course.

 

Abe should have kept his army out of Virginia. Not expect the South to refuse to defend from his unwarranted invasion.

 

Washington turned against his then lawful government. Same thing. What is different is that the South was forced to defend.

 

Lost Causers are a lost cause.

 

I am not a lost causer. I enjoy history. I very much enjoyed the statues not only in VA but in PA of General Robert E. Lee. I am not here to re-fight the war. I know the South lost. I do not deny they lost.

It does tick me off that some people intend destruction of statues as were that going to change the outcome or vindicate their views.

I look at history pragmatically, not emotionally.

 

Imagine today you are a black slave of rich families of the South. And today somebody told you to leave the plantation that you are free.

Grasp the feeling that slaves had. Were they going to find food elsewhere? Where would they sleep next? Who would give them a job? When they fled North, many of the north passed laws banning them.

What do you do? And slaves in families who treated them well. Why leave a sure thing?

 

The best part about people who post like Robert does -- is they help move people following the conversation who are undecided, moderate or unfamiliar with the history over to the side of seeing just how reprehensible and immune to immutable & empirical facts and events the neo-confederate cause is to altering history for their slave-loving "cause."

 

maybe with white christians becoming a minority you may get a chance to enjoy all the perks of slavery

 

Believe me when I tell you, I fight for freedom. Sure, i am aware of what Democrats intend to do. I have no doubt they would put me in a slave camp.

 

I see this similar to what George Washington faced. I don't think Democrats want to trash Washington over his owning slaves. That to them is not only fine, but different.

I try to present a view that one might hear today from those of the South who then lived history. We today are only seeing hate against statues and battle flags as were they pure of thought and conscience.

Normally i catch most heck from the Trump haters. Were CA to depart the union, as we here are perhaps voting to do, do we get them excusing Trump marching in his army to defeat us? Will they then side with trump were he to invade CA?