Why are Americans So Pro Israel

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Socialism Works, Jul 15, 2014.

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Why are Americans so Pro-Israel

  1. Strong Jewish lobby in Washington

    28 vote(s)
    41.8%
  2. Guilt about the Holocaust

    9 vote(s)
    13.4%
  3. Revenge on Arabs for 9/11

    7 vote(s)
    10.4%
  4. Other

    40 vote(s)
    59.7%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. atabitaraf

    atabitaraf New Member

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    Dear Brewskier, I believe our Islam supports my ideas - There was freedom for all beliefs even for non-Mulslims to come and say their thoughts (Book: Motahari - Inghelab-e-Islami). In our religion a Jewish person and our prophet are at the same place in the court in front of justice.
    Which part of my post is against Quran? this part?
    Imam Ali says: The difference between right and wrong is four fingers - from ears to eyes.
    And if you let me which part of my statements I'd try to bring you dear sir a reference if I can.
     
  2. atabitaraf

    atabitaraf New Member

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    Dear RPA1 if you wanted me to share, I'd love to talk friendly fore whenever you tell. I know if I say Israel started you'll say no its the Palestinian's rockets, It we want peace and brotherhood worldwide we need to start bro. I think the first logical step is to retreat each nation its own.
    Thank you.

    Hamas is popular, pardon my bad English - not conveying the idea in my last post. Hamas got the chair by the election. I think there is no enough room here to talk about their democracy, but however the point here is that Hamas is not only famous but also popular and the people are in favor of supporting their own nation by Hamas now.
     
  3. atabitaraf

    atabitaraf New Member

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    No one told me to behave so, I'd definitely change a religion which says tell lies wherever to get your religion's favor. I think your thoughts are deeply based on westernized version of Islam they made to defame us. Muslims are nuts to obey whatever? No bro, we are humans and we are supposed to judge based on what we see not hear.
     
  4. Tommy Palven

    Tommy Palven Active Member Past Donor

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    There's a lengthy article that begins on the front page of the Times-Union, Jacksonville, Florida, today titled "Gaza Strip stirs debate here, too."

    It presents both side of the Gaza conflict.

    Local Rabbi, Shmuli Novack who recently returned from Israel is quoted as saying "there's no excuse for Hamas purposely firing rockets at civilians" and "There are answers I do not know. But I do know we have a responsibility to defend our children and our communities."

    Local man John Rukab, whose parents came from the West Bank, "said that the only answer is for Israel to let Palestine be an independent state....If Israel would do that, Hamas wouldn't need to attack."

    The article referred to "...Hamas, the Palestinian resistance movement." That phrase alone should tell you that this was not an Associated Press piece. It was written by Andrew Pantazi of the Times-Union.

    On page 6 is another lengthy article, this one from the Associated Press titled Israel's march in Gaza could last up to two weeks.."

    The article parrots the State Department line that the Israeli invasion is a logical attempt to stop Hamas aggression, that Hamas uses cowardly "human shields," and so on.
     
  5. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Determining 'who started it' is an age-old conundrum that is never solved. Hamas should stop sending rockets to Israel for the simple fact that (as I already noted) Israel has the 'Iron Dome' and most of the rockets are futile however, Israel has every right to retaliate and, since Gaza is not protected with an 'Iron Dome' it's innocent souls are being killed. An argument can be made that Hamas is using its citizens as a human shields which is an immoral thing.

    Why would a political party that shoots rockets at an 'Iron Dome' that causes that party's adherents to die in retaliatory explosions be 'popular?'
     
  6. atabitaraf

    atabitaraf New Member

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    (Generally for the permanent fight): Hamas stops rackets, Israel stops sending back, making peace while Israel continuing enlarging the settlement in the Palestinian's land!
    You tell me what should Palestinians do in supporting their land? To get it back?

    (Specifically for the ongoing fight): You know it triggered when Israel burned an arrested tortured kid alive.

    If I were a Palestinian I'd prefer to die rather than to accept doing nothing against these general and specific crimes.

    Not having the armed concrete shields as Israel has does not mean that Palestine has to do nothing against these two general and specific cruelties.

    Because they think like me, to die and not to be under. They won't let Israel go further to occupy the world and we have to be thankful to them.
    You tell me what they do against the settlement?
     
  7. Tommy Palven

    Tommy Palven Active Member Past Donor

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    You haven't read the Qur'an, Brewskier. It's a very boring, repetitive, and misogynistic book, but it doesn't endorse violence except in self-defense. It says things like "Do not be influenced by the teachings of Christians and Jews," but it doesn't say to kill them.

    Just go to Barnes and Noble and take a couple of different translations off the shelf. The wording may differ slightly, but all the translations seem to be basically the same. Don't believe what Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity or I say. Take twenty minutes and check it out for yourself.
     
  8. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    'Their land' is the point of contention isn't it? To simply state it is Palestinian land is a road to futility.

    Israel did not torture the kid (Abu Khdeir) Jewish right wing extremists did in retaliation over the kidnap an murder of 3 Israeli teenagers in the West Bank.

    I am not sure you can speak for all Palestinians. Hamas seems to think it can but, hundreds of innocents die as they place their rocket launchers in populated areas knowing that if an Israeli rocket lands, many innocents will die which makes for good video. This is immoral.

    First of all, Israel has the 'Iron Dome' which is anti-missile defense. Hamas rockets mostly never make it to the ground. Second of all, why would Hamas want to send rockets to Israel knowing full well that a) Their rockets will be blown in mid-air before they can cause destruction and b) Most certainly their barrage will cause Israeli retaliation? Hamas KNOWS that their own populace is not protected.

    Death means people no longer have any say (because they are DEAD). Again, you go back to an unresolved land-feud in which both sides claim to be in the right. Nothing will ever be solved by sending rockets to Israel and nothing will ever be solved by blaming a whole population for the actions of a few radicals.
     
  9. atabitaraf

    atabitaraf New Member

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    If the border is not crystal clear, it does not mean that we ignore the fact that Israel is settling in clear Palestinian's lands, if I'm wrong you refer to President Obama + the United Nation telling Israel not to continue settling. Their continuous alarm proves that Israel is settling in clear Palestinian's lands now.


    I wish there could be a way so we could make camps for Palestinian's people so they wouldn't place the rockets at home...


    Radicals are the people who never give any attention even to their friend's points and making more and more settlement. Don't you agree that: against the Obama's and UN's alarms and disagreement Israel is doing and doing the settlement?

    By the way I should have thanked you for telling me the story of that young kid, I heard the murderers were condemned but I didn't know some inf. you said, thanks.
     
  10. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The real question is, who has the right to the 'holy land?' The answer is all believers in every religion that traces its roots there. However Israel and Hamas have a different opinion and are willing to die for it. Israel is the stronger today however Islam has them outnumbered and basically surrounded.

    Even if Israel gives land, there will always be some radicals that will do things like we have just seen on both sides. This will inevitably cause revenge which will always precipitate revenge. I see no solution other than the UN taking over all holy lands. However, this will never happen IMO.

    Hamas has used schools to store ammunition too knowing that Israel will avoid such targets. Israel has issued warnings before their missile strikes. Sometimes they launch a small, non-lethal explosion on rooftops to warn of a missile strike to come as well. All of this AFTER enduring Hamas rockets over Israel skies.

    Since the occupation of holy land is a thousand-year old dilemma, I think there is no one who can say whose land it is. I know that Israel has mentioned a limited invasion mostly to take out missile garrisons. I don't consider this 'settling' it is self defense.

    They are being held in Israel and denied lawyers at this time, or so I read. I have no information about the murderers of the Israeli kids.
     
  11. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I support the intelligent and successful and democratic against the backward and medieval and tyrannical.
     
  12. Jenjen

    Jenjen New Member

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    Technically, it's disputed territory but I get your point. Israel just took it upon themselves to settle the dispute. :) pun intended.

    I'm not saying its right but it is the reality. Palestinians have been rejecting and refusing to sign any real peace treaty for decades. Which would have set permanent borders. Sometimes when you have no power, it's better to cut your losses and move on. The longer it takes, the smaller their land gets. And then Israel is *justified* by their resistance. (Violence)
     
  13. Tommy Palven

    Tommy Palven Active Member Past Donor

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    The Palestinians did sign a peace treaty.

    Remember the Oslo accords?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords

    Israel's Yitzhak Rabin signed them, but then Sharon and Netanyahu completely ignored them and settlement expansion has continued.
     
  14. Jenjen

    Jenjen New Member

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    I thought it was broken by both sides. I knew after Rabin was assassinated, Israel forged ahead. I do need a refresher tho, so thanks.
     
  15. Tommy Palven

    Tommy Palven Active Member Past Donor

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  16. CJtheModerate

    CJtheModerate New Member

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    Qu'ran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...
    but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"


    Qu'ran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

    Qu'ran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

    Qu'ran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority"

    Qu'ran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of AllahÂ…"

    Qu'ran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..."

    Qu'ran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

    Qu'ran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

    Qu'ran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"

    Qu'ran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

    Qu'ran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

    Qu'ran (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."

    Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven (The Arabic word for "striven" has the same root as "Jihad") with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant."
     
  17. Tommy Palven

    Tommy Palven Active Member Past Donor

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    Please put those quotes in context. What are they in response to? The Qu'ran doesn't prescribe killing people of other religions simply because they exist.

    Muslims, Christians, and Jews practiced their religions side by side in the Mid-East for centuries, and still do in Jordan, Syria, Iran, Morocco, and other Arab countries, if not in the grand US ally, Saudi Arabia.
     
  18. CJtheModerate

    CJtheModerate New Member

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    While context is not given in the obvious quotes, there is context given for some of them.

    Violence | TheReligionOfPeace.com
     
  19. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    no, they just blow up passenger planes.
     
  20. atabitaraf

    atabitaraf New Member

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    (I was out of internet access and out of time access for some days, sorry for the delay sir)So as you brought different sides, what is the result? What should they do to settle the fight and make the borders forever? If we believe in democracy 'outnumbered' means 'more human beings' and 'more right' You imagine they stop bombing each other now to set it, what is your suggestion for making the borders forever? Does Israel have the right to continue occupying more and more lands not giving a little attention what UN, US, the World, even Not-Israeli Jews say? By the way I think the idea of making the lands as international is not a bad idea. You know what the problem is? The problem is the veto-right and a non-democratic UN.
    I disagree. Can we settle in our neighbor to make self-defence? They should have considered a part of their land to make such settlement.
     
  21. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Neither of the sides are totally in the right. That said, I think Netanyahu's comments are a good description of the situation:
     
  22. Great_Goebbel's Ghost

    Great_Goebbel's Ghost Banned

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    The Iraeli lobby in this country is extremely powerful. You can't win an election anywhere in this country without being a cheerleader for Israel. yes Muslim extremism is a threat to the west but does that mean we should look the other way while Israel kills hundreds of Palestinian children?

    Most Americans are pretty much ignorant of so many of the goings on in the world today and in the past and the Israel/Gaza conflict is no different. The only thing the average American can do is regurgitate the Zionist propaganda they hear in the mainstream media. America is not exactly a global epicenter for critical thinking and truth seeking.
     
  23. J0NAH

    J0NAH Banned

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    technically, it belongs to the Israelites. Not the muslims, christian or jewish.
     
  24. flogger

    flogger Well-Known Member

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    How many Palestinians were amongst the 9/11 hijackers ?
     
  25. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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