Why God Exists

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by impermanence, Mar 15, 2023.

  1. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    To truly "understand" what God is and why God exists requires non-intellectual realization. Acknowledging that this forum is steeped in the intellectual, I am going to present an intellectualized version of why God exists. It will be fraught with all kinds of errors [due to my own inadequate insights as well as what's lost in translation], but we'll give it a shot... :)

    The first mistake made by those who cannot intellectualize the existence of God is the idea that God is not an intellectual thing. He is more of a, "this is what it must be based on what we know [and do not know] at the moment," kind of thing, that is, it's the only thing [in the end] that makes sense.

    And recall that this is not just a couple of dudes sitting at the end of the bar getting into heavy duty discourse after pounding down a half dozen beers, instead, this narrative has been hashed out over many thousands of years by minds MUCH greater than our own.

    To distill down to its root, man needs God. God is the only conception that makes sense to an individual facing the prospect that he is alone in the Universe. This reality [that we are alone] is a fate that no man can handle [very well]...so he found [not fabricated] God.

    God, being God, fills all kinds of voids for man and is therefore omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient. He is the answer to all the unanswerable questions because man's intellect does not allow him access to much of what his curiosity implores.

    So, the choice is yours. Go it alone and face the great unknown [alone]...or find God and know peace in your life because there is something greater than your 'self' that is responsible for the things you just don't have the time or energy for...like figuring out every damn thing and taking care of the Universe!

    The acceptance of God is not weakness, it is the ultimate in pragmatism. Free up your energy so that you can not only fully realize yourself, but just as important, so you can help others confront and overcome the same intellectual gauntlet you face now [which is doing God's work].
     
  2. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    That's just an appeal to authority. Besides, I've seen very smart people make cognitive errors when it suits them, or to be selectively rational.

    I don't think that helps the case for the existence of god. Rather, it helps to explain god as a ubiquitous concept. So unless you just mean god as a concept, rather than an entity that actually exists, I don't think it helps. Man is faced with what seems to be a very difficult and harsh reality. He lies to himself to deal with it. Doesn't make it more likely that god exists.

    That's just the main form of "god" that has survived intellectual inquiry and technology. They used to have gods for the ocean and thunder, after all. Why not just accept that we don't know? Why make up stuff?

    I don't feel I can choose to lie to myself to feel better. But there are certainly things greater than myself. Concepts of morality, my kids, science. Really the main problem is getting comfortable with one day not existing anymore, probably.

    I think the ultimate pragmatism would be accepting we don't know everything and find our own meaning/enjoyment in life without the limitations of others imaginary friends. And while we may not live forever, future generations may go on forever or practically forever so it's not like it doesn't matter what we do.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2023
  3. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    God is all that exists. We are all little sparks of that universal consciousness that is god/everything. We are separated so that the existence can experience itself. If all us little separate consciousnesses knew that we were all just one being, then the experience would be meaningless. So we are veiled in ignorance, though it is just an illusion. Over many lifetimes we slowly learn little clues as to what we really are. Before we reach that realization we live in the illusions of separateness, limitations, and lack. In the end, our little spark of consciousness realizes that it has been part of the whole all along, and we "return" to god, though really all that existed all along was god. As we look around us we see the illusion that we are all separate people, all with conflicting ideals, all fighting, all competing for resources, but it is just that. An illusion that exists only to create the contrast that gives existence any meaning. All those people we see around us, that we seem to be in conflict with, are just other instances of us. Another little spark of consciousness that is all part of the whole, but that is so caught up in the illusion that it has no idea how incredible and perfect it and everyone around truly are.
     
  4. Nwolfe35

    Nwolfe35 Well-Known Member

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    Now all you have to do is offer some kind of evidence that any of that is true.
     
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  5. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    Existence is an entirely different subject but one that can be dovetailed into this conversation. The notion that God does not have an intellectual presence obviates the need to go there at the moment.

    If you wish to [really] know God, then you must do it on His terms.

    These are stellar questions.

    I agree...more than just about anything, we need to admit that we don't know [anything]. And why make up stuff? I suppose this is programmed-in as our parents begin doing this to us right from the get-go. By the time most people reach adulthood [30-40 these days?], the narrative is in place and people wouldn't recognize the truth if it came crashing down upon them.

    Do you tell your children the way the world actually is?

    We have morphed to meaning. Again, I totally agree that acknowledging the limits of the human intellect is the first step one must take down the path toward intellectual/spiritual freedom. The next is letting go of time and living right now. The past mostly holds remorse, and the future, disappointment. The only thing that matters is what you do now.
     
  6. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    Literally, we are one. As you mentioned, it is only our intellect [perspective] that gives rise to the illusion of separateness and time. And yes, things are exactly the way they are supposed to be. How could it be any other way?

    Mixing the intellectual and non-intellectual is a place you really can't go with many folks. Glad to see there are others here that have gone there!
     
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  7. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    That's the great paradox and saving grace of God. Once you try to intellectualize Him, poof.

    As, Huang Po, one of the truly great Zen masters of Tang dynasty [approx. 650-950AD] said...
    "Open your mouth and you have already lost it."

    God lies beyond the intellectual because He has to. Our entire world is an intellectual portrait, so if you wish to paint God into it, then you will burden Him with all the foibles that cause the range of our human experience. God gives man a well-deserved break from himself.

    There are many places you can find God...at the ocean, gazing into the heavens at night, or even into your lover's eyes. Quiet the ego and allow God in.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2023
  8. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    As this thread evolves note how many interpretations of God get posted.there are some 6,000 + religions practiced, not including all the various other variations of spiritual beliefs practiced among various so-called primitive s that do not have specific Gods of supreme power.why is your, any your, beliefs a correct interpretation of reality?
    I have a t-shirt I made that says, 6,000 worl religions, I am damned in all of them.
     
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  9. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    And, do the right hallucinogenics.
     
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  10. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    I think this is the part where you ...basically question everything and everyone including yourself.
     
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  11. Nwolfe35

    Nwolfe35 Well-Known Member

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    God lies beyond the intellectual because he has to??

    No he doesn't, he doesn't have to lie anywhere. There is nothing that comes close to indicating that a God exists or even that a God needs to exist.

    Pierre-Simon Laplace, a French Scholar, wrote a five volume treatise on celestial mechanics. When Napoleon asked Laplace where God fit into his mathematical work Laplace famously replied "Sir, I have no need of that hypothesis"

    That is God put into a nutshell. There are those that claim a God exists and those that do not believe those claims. The bottom line is not only is there no evidence for a god, there isn't even any evidence that there is a need for a God to exist.
     
  12. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    I do continuously question most everything. I think it healthy. I can live not having all the answers, but continually seeking understanding; makes life interesting. The more I Learn, the more questions I have.
    If you encountered an entity that claimed to be God, how would you know the claim to be true? Can A God prove it is ‘the’ God? How?
     
  13. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    You wish to have your cake and eat it too. The only intellectual argument for the existence of God is existence itself, but that would be missing the point [as well as getting caught up in religious aspects].

    If you stop your mind for a moment, God neither exists nor does not exist. This is where you will find Him.

    As far as there not being any evidence that there is a need for God to exist, you might arrange an excursion to the nearest foxhole and ask those who are close to the edge whether they believe there is a need for God to exist. Reality suggests that we are all close to the edge each and every moment, and although we like to deny it, deep down inside we know that each breath might be our last...
     
  14. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    First, you need to come to a realization of what God is and how He exists. The only way this happens is through your own experience. It's like falling in love. It's purely experiencial.

    The religious intellectualizes God for those unwilling to meet Him on his own terms. This is where all the inconsistencies [duality] arise [and the skepticism]. Religion is an institution which has helped a great number of people throughout man's time on this planet, but the God of the religions is man's attempt to create order out of chaos. Religion [with its best foot forward] is an invitation to know God, not an introduction.
     
  15. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Again projecting your biases on all of humanity. The egocentric belief you have the answer for all. With a god (your version) you will know peace, have an answer to unanswerable questions and fully realize yourself? You’re making a lot of promises there. I know a lot of godly people and they don’t seem to hit those marks any better than anyone else.
     
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  16. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Au contraire mon frère. There is ample evidence there is a need for a god and religion. Man has been using it before recorded history. It has never been out of fashion, therefore it must have meaningful utility. Without it people seek it. It must give us an evolutionary advantage or it would have been discarded long ago.
     
  17. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    They mean actual existence. You're referring to the utility of the concept. Being able to unite people with an idea, any idea, is going to form a more powerful coalition of tribes. Pulling people out of the despair of loss is going to improve productivity and survival. But none of that means god exists.
     
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  18. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    The reasons God exists are because people don't like to not have the answers to imporant questions, people fear death, and people are comforted by belief in a powerful figure looking out for them. God also exists because leaders of society find that belief useful for controlling others.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2023
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  19. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Of course that doesn't mean a god exists, but it does mean people need to believe a god exists because of human's deep history of that belief as evidence. It's what we do.
     
  20. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    Once again, you have hit the nail on the head. Thank God I have a guardian angel such as yourself to point out all the mistakes I make.

    ...or, you have no clue what I am talking about.

    What do you think?
     
  21. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    So you must have the knowledge of a God to know God.? You didn’t provide a satisfactory answe to my questions, just spewed feel good isms.
    Do you think you can prove I am not God? What is the empirical test?
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2023
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  22. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

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    Which one?
     
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  23. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

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    There are very few things common to all human groups in all places and times. Of them, we can observe that no group has ever been discovered that did not have language. Equally, no group has ever been observed without some "religious" beliefs. Apparently, such things are part of human psychology. That does not prove "God" exists.
    Intellectual approaches to "God" are entirely valid. We can evaluate what a supreme entity could not be like and we can also reason what qualities would have to be present. Today, with our knowledge of the universe, it is obvious that such a "God" would have to be so far outside our capacities to entirely comprehend that anything we could say would at best be metaphorical. Our problem with religion in today's world is that we have such a history of insisting that obviously erroneous assumptions must be believed. It is extremely rare that anything close to objective thought be applied to the question.
    We forget that human perceptions are constructed from contrast. There is 'this' and 'not this'. We cannot perceive what has no opposite.
    Thus, one problem faced with intellectualization of "God" is that, for "God" to truly be "God", the entity would have to be everything, everywhere. It is not possible that "God" could be separate from "God".. Therefore, from the human perspective, there would be no contrast, no "God" and "not-God". Thus, "God" would be invisible to us. Of course, if "God" does not exist, we would also not be able to perceive "God". This leave us with the intellectual dilemma; we can know certain characteristics that "God" would have to exhibit and some that would be mutually exclusive, but we cannot intellectual apprehend "God". This leaves us with only personal revelation as the means to "know" "God". That, by definition, is totally intimate and individual. Others may or may not believe it. Only personal revelation can reveal "God". Learning from stories told or read is mere hearsay. That is choice. When we have heard about the Grand Canyon, we choose to believe or not. When we see the Grand Canyon, the situation is not the same.
     
  24. Nwolfe35

    Nwolfe35 Well-Known Member

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    Credulity is not a virtue. It's fortune cookie cutter, mommy issues, hypnobabble on Bullshit. Couched in scientician, double bubble toil and trouble, pseudo-quasi-alternative, acupunctuating, pressurized, stereogramed, pyramidal, free energy healing, water downward spiral, brain dead pan sales pitch late night, infodocutainment. Leo pisces, cancer cures, detox, reflex foot massage, death and towers, tarot cards, psychic healing, crystal balls, Bigfoot, yeti, aliens. Churches, mosques, and synagogues. Temples, dragons, giant worms, Atlantis, dolphins, truthers, birthers, witches, wizards, vaccine nuts, Shaman healers, evangelists, conspiracy double speak, stigmata nonsense. Expose your sides. Thrust your hands, bloody, evidential, conclusive. Doubt even this.

    The Sceptic's Creed from the Podcast "Cognitive Dissonance"
     
  25. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    I'm just trying to make you a better person, just like you are trying to make us better people. I have the humbler job.
     

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