You believe in God because...

I apologize if I misstated your position. No need for the combative tone.

What led to my conclusion was you saying this: "I believe in GOD because I don't want to travel through life having a nasty/negative/gloomy disposition like so many if not all of the non-believing agnostics, atheists, socialists, marxists, commies, progessives, non productive statists and leftists I see out there" Following the logic of your position, one concludes that you believe that without God, one would have a "nasty, negative, or gloomy disposition." Am I still misstating you? And still, you believe because you were told--I mean you didn't just discover this god all on your own, did you?

 

I went to Sunday school, once.
I went to churches when I had no real choice.
I broke commandments as a hobby (a fun one when it comes to adultery), 9 down; one to go.

I, one day, realised there was something wrong and that turned out to be Jesus.
Turns out he was really called Isa and was a prophet, not the son of god as in the bible and never ended up on any lollypop sticks, drinking vinegar.

 

The great depression. Liberals brought the country back from the brink of collapse that the cons caused. The cons were thrown out of power for forty years, and everything was great until Nixon, Raygun, Shrub daddy and Shrub Jr. destroyed the economy again. The selfish greed of the cons only screws things up.

 

Truth caused the big bang. Truth is the first cause. It's like an infinite line of numbers, both positive and negative, starting at zero. Positive 1 2 3 4 5 and so on. And negative 1 2 3 4 and so on. You can't have 2 without first having 1. But it must all start from absolute zero. Zero is circular, all encompassing. There in is the truth.

 

The promotion and establish of some of the most significant progressive movements of the last 50-60 years at least.

"Liberalism" as it is understood in its most raw, superficial elements involves ideals such as: free and fair elections, civil rights, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, free trade, private property.... I could go on and on.

This is why I claim that people who regard "liberalism" as some ideology with no benefical influence in society are completely wrong. Because that is an incredibly ignorant viewpoint.

I just hope my post might lead you to some form of improvement in your outlook.

The whole "us verses them/right verses left" mentality is childish when debating politics; leave that bull(*)(*)(*)(*) in the surrogate sporting area and understand that political discussions are no place for torrid, angry argument, rather rational dialogue whereby we may deepen and hone our own beliefs.

Anyone declaring "liberalism" or "conservatism" as finite terms distinguishing absolute morality is grossly misguided and closed minded.

They're just words; and we're just people. Political positions aren't sports teams.

 

Highway system, railroad system, air control system, technology from efforts such as NASA, education, ie we have more literacy now than 100+ yrs ago.

 

Quality medical care is God's means through which his miracles happen - depending on your point of view.

 

just the oposit w/ me

i saw much injustice and misery in the wolrd caused by people sinning

and i said

when i first began going to Mass frequently... and began hearing the Word of God (one or 2 psgs from the Old T, one or 2 from the New @every Mass)

i said to myself

"Wow, this is the God of justice i have always beleieved in" (but never really found)

now i am closer to God than b4... closeness to God involves ditching sin, esp mortal sin

and i was not able to get a grip on serious sins (addiction, tho not to drugs/alc was invlved) until i began receiving the Sacraments... going 2 Mass

 

While I can appreciate you perspective, you didn't really answer my question. You heard about God or Jesus from somebody else, didn't you? Likely an authority figure in your life--a parent, peers, parts of your culture. If you were born in a different culture, for example, you may believe in a god named Allah or you may meditate to Buddha--because that's the social tradition in which you would have been reared.

 

Fear and sex are the two greatest motivators of human behavior (two of the "four Fs"). So, fear of eternal (*)(*)(*)(*)ation for those who step out of line would seem to fit that bill. Religion has always been about social control, back to the earliest days of written history, through the divine rites of kings, and right up the the modern-day quasi-theocrats who occupy various stations of authority.

Actually, having live the last 18 months in the P.R.C., I'm going to have to disagree. Not a lot of religion here, but plenty of social order. They have replaced worship of a deity with worship of the state. And there are many interesting parallels--from the presumed government benevolence, to using fear as a tool of social control.

To be clear, I would never advocate "getting rid of religion." Freedom of association is a fundamental right in a free society.

I don't normally quote Marx, but given the proximity to my comments above, it was he who noted "religion is the opiate of the masses." His philosophy was to simply replace one form of addiction with another--as he understood that most people simply want to be told what to do as it makes life a lot easier than having to make all kinds of decisions on your own.

 

Well this is really interesting that you would say this because I was also raised Catholic and right around the time of my confirmation (12 years old if I recall?), I just sort of realized that it was all bunk and have never looked back. I had to suffer the ridicule of my peers and bear the disappointment of my family, but that eventually passed. But the interesting part is that the genesis of this thread (no pun ) was a conversation I had with my sister recently whose three-year-old son (my nephew) is singing songs about Jesus. I sort of teasingly chastised her for indoctrinating her son and she said "we'll let him make up his own mind, but he's not old enough to do that yet." Well, uh sis? You've kind of just made my point! He is not old enough to think critically yet which is why your actions vis-a-vis catechism and religious instruction constitute indoctrination!

So like all parts of culture, religion is imposed on us when we're very young and it is during those formative years that we develop our world view, beliefs, attitudes, etc. which generally follow us through life. Hence, my OP: You believe in God because you are told to.

 

Statistics. Multiply the probability of the distance of the Earth to the Sun (i.e. heat) by the probability of the distance of the Moon to the Earth (i.e. tilt angle and heat distribution) by the probability of an atmosphere containing 20 % oxygen (i.e. where else in the universe) by the probability of a magnetic core (i.e. to deflect gamma rays) by the probability of plant species coinhabiting the Earth (i.e. as an oxygen regeneration source, etc. At some point, you either come to the conclusion that you won the Powerball lottery every day for the last 100 years or something else is up.

 

What kind of decisions that could be? Let me think. A decision to work in an office within the limits of corporate culture, which tells you when to apploud and when to shut up, a decision to choose one of the typical layers in the society and to be a part of global statistics which orders human meat to vote for this or that clown because of some sounds and TV programmes and even whether to buy ribbed or colored condoms before a new date on a totally calculated and standard silicone babe... These decisions are already made. And the fact that most of the statistic people consider themselves exceptional and try to be exceptional is just an evil irony.

I wasn't told to belive. I was asked to think of it at the age of 15. And that time I really felt that the only freedom I have is to give it a try to act like a true christian. And well. I am still trying. This is ma way and I want to use my decisions to reach the destination but not to appear weak for the well-ruled chaos. Freedom is a constant choice but not a state of mind isn't it?

 

Then why do so many faithful people in poor countries lack proper medical care? And why all the fuss over Obamacare? Will God stop performing miracles if health care is turned over to the government?

 

Quite a perplexing equation to be sure. However, none of it proof of a "creator."

 

Debatable. To me, the realization of the probability of 1 x 10^10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 is "god". I can't get even get a die to roll 6 three times in a row.

 

I get that. My point is that we are indoctrinated--in most cases--into the faith of our families and at 2-3 years of age, mommy and daddy are quite literally "god" and everything they say and do is the absolutely, perfect whole truth. It is only later in life when we develop reasoning capacity and discernment are we able to question the beliefs instilled in us in those formative years. This is no great conspiracy, mind you, simply how culture is passed from one generation to the next.

Indeed. Our feeble attempts to sort it all out are laughable--regardless of how good our scientific inquiry may be. But I beleive the intellectually-honest position to take is "we don't know." And to go even a step beyond that, "we don't know what we don't know."

I'd be satisfied with hard scientific evidence. I've never actually seen an atom, for example, but I am satisfied they exist.

 

With no evidence, it's just as probable that our whole universe is a speck of dust on the head of a pin... or that we don't even exist in physical form at all but are rahter just energy interacting with other energy... or that we are alone in the universe and our planet was populated by beings from another planet escaping theirs as it died out... or there is a creator and it was Elvis. The only honest answer, in my view, is "we don't know."

 

Naw .. it is because of the fear of eternal punishment which was used to brainwash you as a child.

This fear resides in your subconscious and will eventually find a way to convince your conscious of a way to return to God.

 

Yet there is no scientific evidence to prove the existence of Allah.

 

Your equation makes no sense. A number of planets have now been found in the "habitable" zone ... here is the latest one, http://www.thestar.com/news/world/a...of-earth-s-twin-has-the-science-world-excited

Does finding this planet mean God exists ? Not really.

 

Nor is there scientific evidence to prove Allah does not exist.

 

You believe in Allah because you were brainwashed as a child by people telling you that if you did not believe in Allah you would face eternal torture.

It is this fear in your subconsious that compels you and not "objective" questioning.

There is no objective evidence in the Koran for God. In fact ... Allah is not even the name of the God of Abraham or the God of creation although it is closer than Jehovah or YHWH. El (also known as Ellil, Enlil, Elyon) is the creator/father/God of Abraham.

 

Can you list some of the things that Allah has ever done that's unique to him that justifies your belief in him? (not imagined or written about, but that has happened in real time to real people).

The only reason why people believe in their favorite deity is because other people have brainwashed them into believing. If any deity was real there would be no need for constant brainwashing. All gods are imaginary. Not one god of any kind has ever done anything godly since man created it. If no one had brainwashed you into believing in Allah it would be impossible for you to imagine such an entity. That's true for whatever god you can name.

 

Religion is simply a means of social control--and it is one of many. Using China as an example--an officially-atheist state and grudgingly tolerant of some religious practice, it is a very ordered society and one in which a person of faith is the exception rather than the rule.