Young Americans want Chinese EVs!

Millennials and younger - "I want a Chinese EV!"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/young-americans-want-chinese-evs/ar-BB1mVnAD

Seventy-six percent of respondents under 40 years old said they would consider purchasing a Chinese vehicle
...
“Social media has simply just made the world a lot smaller,” Kim said. “It is extremely easy for anyone to see what’s happening in other parts of the world, to see what products are available in other parts of the world.”

I guess when young Americans see a new, sharp looking EV selling for under $10K, they want one. The most affordable EVs in the US are about 4x that price.

 

The same uninformed layabouts who want their student loans forgiven and whine that they're not making six figures right out of college.

 

Is anyone telling these youngsters WHY Chinese EVs are cheap? Anything about China building captive coal power plants in Indonesia to smelt metals used in manufacturing these cheap EVs? Anything about slave labor in the processing of materials for these cheap EVs? Anything about the deforestation and ocean pollution from the production of these cheap EVs? Anything about massive subsidies from the CCP that forces abortions and sterilization on demographics they dislike?

Hmmmm. You telling me youngsters aren’t being informed of these facts? I’m shocked!

 

I have a little higher opinion of the young men and women of our country than you do.

 

Maybe the problem isn't that Chinese vehicles are reasonably priced, as much as American vehicles are way overpriced. It's tough for America to compete in an International marketplace when our BTU/GDP is twice that of other countries. Despite having a wealth of resources, the US wastes more than the GDP of most countries in the world. BTW, when it comes to deforestation, the US has deforested most of its lands. Regarding ocean pollution - prior to the mid-70s, it was commonplace for the US to bury radioactive waste at sea. You like to be critical of China, but you don't like to look in the mirror.

 

Some yes, some no.

 

Kind of like all generations

 

Some yes, some no.

 

Great. Let them move to China.

 

The US CO2 emissions per unit of GDP are less than half those of China. It’s 0.2 for the US and 0.5 for China. We pollute far less per unit of GDP than China. Not my opinion. Data from the Worldbank.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PP.GD

Deforestation. All deforestation is bad. Most in the US occurred prior to 1910. China is deforesting Indonesia right now to build EVs. The US is not doing that.

Labor. China uses slave and low wage labor to build EVs. The US has labor unions that make labor impossibly expensive here. We can not compete with Chinese labor.

Environmental regulations. The US highly regulates air, soil, and water quality. When China goes to places like Indonesia they cut trees, pollute oceans, and burn coal with virtually no regulations or consequences. We can not compete with their low cost of environmental compliance.

When you buy a Chinese EV you are exporting pollution to poor countries that suffer the results. Oh well. Out of sight, out of mind. All that matters is a cheap product that makes your stock portfolio look good….

 

Looks like fun until something goes wrong : )

Importantly though, they love Teslas over there that are much more expensive then local Chinese product. There must be reason for that.

Also, there is something uncannily unnatural about that low price don't you think?

 

The big dogs like BYD are getting massive direct subsidies from the CCP as well as selective purchasing contracts from government. The founder of BYD is a CCP party member who has sat on the National People’s Congress.

 

Again, you highlight all the Chinese transgressions but fail to look in the mirror. The US is extremely wasteful, with double the BTU/ GDP of China. As mentioned US waste exceeds the GDP of most nations. Sure China is on an energy binge, but their per capita usage is still much smaller than the US. Arguably, the Chinese diet is much healthier than the meat-centric obesity laden diets of most Americans. Want me to go on? Again, look in the mirror.

 

We’ve talked about these. Recently the US gave direct subsidies to corporations for battery research. Also the US gives subsidies to Universities for similar research, and these grants often also include corporate money. Not that much different frim China.

 

Were you all this critical of Japan when similar fears surfaced in the ‘80s and early ‘90s? The end result was a.collaboration that actually improved the US auto industry. All those Japanese plants are now employing American workers. It’s a global marketplace- artificially excluding players will probably hurt our industry in the long run

 

So...I'm trying to understand. You don't care if China uses slave labor, destroys the environment and pollutes the oceans to make these cheap cars.

You think US prices are unreasonable even though they reflect higher costs due to Unions, environmental regulations...

And then you accuse the US of bad diets?

 

What? I thought you were concerned about CO2? BTU’s are a measure of energy, not “pollution”. China pollutes more per unit of GDP than thd US. Fact. Why does that fact upset you?


Dude. I’m ragging on fat Americans and their diets all the time. What does that have to do with China polluting the environment at over twice the rate per unit of GDP than the US? You made a thread about how great China is. I’m pointing out FACTS you and others don’t know about WHY China has cheap EVs. If you want to discuss diet make a thread. But this is about ignorant US citizens worshipping cheap EVs that are cheap because China has no environmental regulations like we do and their work force have no civil rights.

Since you brought it up, the rate of childhood stunting from malnutrition in China is nearly double that of the US. I guess it depends on whether you prefer too much food or not enough….

 

Of course not, mostly because there's nothing remotely similar between the Japanese industry of the 60s and 70s (I grew up in Dearborn, MI. Your timeline is badly screwed up.) Post WWII the not-a-communist-dictatorship of Japan rebuilt and actually listened to American quality gurus like Deming and others who could never get much traffic in the US and took their lessons and started building really good cars (not cheap cars) that flat out outdid the American car industry. On top of that, EPA started regulating emissions in 1970, throwing an American automotive industry that had grown fat and lazy in the post-WWII years into a tailspin.

The result has been that the American auto industry took their beating and quality lessons from Japan and pulled themselves back into a competitive position, competing with Japan on an even playing field. At no time did Japan ever compete with the US through cheap pieces of shiite sold for nothing like the Chinese are trying to do.

There is simply no legitimate comparison between the Chinese built on cheap slave labor and complete disregard for US-level quality and regulatory burdens and the US peer Japanese product and companies.

 

I’m not a fan of that either. I’m simply pointing out WHY China has cheap EVs. Because of government subsidies, government contracts, no environmental regulations, no civil rights, no unions, no concern for other countries they exploit. The U.S. government is helping China exploit Indonesia. I’ve posted extensively to you about how the U.S. is enabling massive coal plant construction in Indonesia.

Sorry the facts are upsetting. China sucks. The U.S. sucks a little less on some metrics. Just facts.

 

This infatuation with China seems odd. But Russia could get back in with progressives if they built a cheap EV.

Ketchup man says so anyway….

 

I'm saying we need to look in the mirror. We have twice the BTU/GDP of China. That's wasteful. We eat a meat-centric diet with massive obesity. China doesn't. That's wasteful. You need to travel outside the US. Europeans and Asians are extremely critical of the US. Many will not travel here, because we have no high speed rail system. Honestly, I'm not all bullish on China, but I think there are many things the US could learn from both China and Europe. And that's the difference - the US tends to be so arrogant, and many, like yourself don't realize there are better ways to do things.

 

Are you down with social credit scores?

And can you order these on Temu? That's Where you can get a lot of other Chinese garbage

 

"A little less" - I would beg to differ. I agree with some of your claims. BYD has received money from the Chinese government. I believe it was one time - about $2 Billion. It's not continuous as you implied. Also, I think it's a bunch of crap when US politicians start saying that Chinese autos will be used to spy on the US.

But I also give credit where credit is due. China has built some of the most amazing cities and infrastructure in the world. Take a look at Guangzhou.

https://video.search.yahoo.com/sear...1341f819ece9b6db4e9bbeba99696e05&action=click

I urge you to watch this video, and attempt to find one piece of litter in all the footage. They have a world class mass transit system, autonomous taxis and buses, and the city is interconnected to other major cities with state-of-the-art high speed rail. They also maintain their ancient temples and heritage.

Your statement that "China sucks" is simply not based on reality. The rest of the world is taking notice. China continues to be contracted for infrastructure projects all over the world. Again, I give credit where credit is due.

 

I think it’s cute you base your opinions in a video. Even California cleaned up their streets when Xi Jinping was in town.

China puts their garbage in their rivers and oceans. And in landfills that pollute water. Just because you saw a video without litter means little.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2015175118

Look. If you don’t think building captive coal burning power plants sucks, that’s fine. I think it sucks. If you don’t think having 70% of water sources unfit for use sucks, fine. I think it sucks. If you don’t think a government that forces sterilization on people it dislikes sucks, fine. I think it sucks. If you don’t think childhood stunting from malnutrition sucks, fine. I think it sucks. If you don’t think more than double emissions per unit of GDP sucks, fine. I think that sucks.

If you don’t believe China will use ANY means to spy on the US, fine. I see that as delusional. Why would they stop now?

Yes, China is building an empire by exploiting other countries just like we did. I think it sucks.

 

I did NOT write anything about Chinese rivers, and yet you post that as if it’s attributed to me. Your posts are extremely dishonest and almost always cherry- pick data and resources. BTW, most major rivers in America are unsafe for food and recreation. More China cherry- picking.