The Religion of Atheism

Hm, yeah, this gets down to the nitty gritty of defining just what makes on "atheist." Normally you'd associate atheism with a rejection of superstition and the notion of "spirits," but I suppose an atheist may only reject a Theos and retain some kind of a "spiritual" belief/outlook. I think such an atheist is also very silly, but there you go.

 

I'd disagree - reincarnation suggests that something of you survives beyond death to be "reincarnated" in another lifeform. That is by nature supernatural, because there is nothing natural to account for this view. Plus, it's still something of a dualistic view, since it separates "you" from "your body."

 

Buddhists are one kind, commonly encouraged by the indoctrination, old time communists are another one, often fuelled by emotional rhetoric and political agendas.

 

I agree. Today, certain kinds of atheists are more common than others. However, mostly, you have to be stringent with definitions to make sure that you end up using generalizations that simply aren't true.

 

Sorry for not using the correct word there it was a reference to infinite chances of "reliving" because of infinite space and infinite time i didn't had posting about metaphysics in mind.

good thanks , since i am a commie revisionist i guess i can pass for new age

 

ALTER2EGO -to- SPACE CRICKET79:

Exactly. That's it in a nut shell. They populate the Religion and Spirituality forums at every website I've ever been at, for the sole purpose of making a mockery of God, the Bible, and Christianity. They insist the entire time they are not religious because non-belief in a God or gods is not a religious belief. Yeah. Right. So why did they go to court and sue for their religious rights? That's how the court cases mentioned in my opening post became law? It was the atheists themselves that brought those lawsuits. Now they are up here in this forum insisting the courts don't have a right deciding atheism is a religion. Like you said. They want to have their cake and eat it too. But they don't want to acknowledge that with the cake comes the definition they cannot escape: that atheism is Religion.

 

Can you run through the particular reasoning behind an American court having any bearing on the definitions I use here in Sweden? They went to court because they weren't allowed their free speech. And mostly, the courts correctly decided that atheism is "equivalent to religion for first amendment purposes", which I don't think any atheists have a problem with. The only court decision that does state something else, the 7th circle of appeals thing, contain actual factual errors upon which they make their decision.

I don't think anyone is interested in "being a religion and not being a religion at the same time", what people are interested in is being equivalent to a religion for first amendment purposes.

 

Hey, if we could ignore everyone we thought were silly, there wouldn't be a lot of people to discuss with.

 

ALTER2EGO -to- SWENSSON:
No, it goes deeper than First Amendment rights. As you will see by the source quoted below, atheists demand all of the privileges granted to orthodox religions. Keep your eyes on the words in bold within the quotation.

EVIDENCE -- ATHEISM IS A RELIGION:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-lose/atheism-religion_b_867217.html

 

What is your definition of religion? Does atheism fit that definition?

 

I just started a new gorup. The Not Collecting Stamp Club. It will be a wounderful group for us non-collection stamp enthusiasts!

 

ALTER2EGO -to- GRASPING FOR PEACE:

Below is the dictionary definition of "religion." Keep your eyes on the words in bold print as they concern secular humanism--which is the backbone of the religion of atheism.

EVIDENCE -- ATHEISM IS A RELIGION:
Definition of "religion":

http://www.yourdictionary.com/religion

 

No, I'm sorry, secular humanism isn't the backbone of atheism. What you seem to be trying to say is that atheism isn't a religion, secular humanism is.

 

If atheism is a religion, so it not believing in extraterrestrials, not believing in ghosts or poltergeists, ESP, reincarnation, whatever it is that Scientology says happened, and the list goes on and on and on.

That's a heck of a lot of "religions". Who is going to name them all?

 

ALTER2EGO -to- GRASPING FOR PEACE:

What do you mean by "what you seem to be trying to say"? Secular humanism is the philosophy of atheists. They, as a group, have repeatedly made that claim: that they don't need a supernatural God to direct them because they are perfectly capable of doing without God. Are you now saying atheists do not share that common philosophy and that they need God to instruct them? Let me know.


BTW: It was not me but the U.S. courts that specifically said atheism is a religion.

QUESTION: Did you see who said atheism is a religion?

ANSWER: The Wisconsin 7th Circuit Court of Appeals

 

I am so glad not collecting stamps is a hobby.

 

Who as a group have made that claim? Are you saying secular humanists have made that claim or that atheists have made that claim?

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=main&page=sh_defined

"How about atheism? When people ask me whether I’m an atheist, I say, “Yes, but that’s just the beginning.” Unlike simple atheism, secular humanism affirms an ethical system that is:

rooted in the world of experience;
objective; and
equally accessible to every human who cares to inquire into value issues.

I make this point cautiously, since religionists often falsely accuse atheists of having no values. Most atheists I know have strong value systems. In fact, some of my favorite atheists are secular humanists without knowing it. But atheism is only a position on the existence of God, not a comprehensive life stance. Nothing about atheism as such compels atheists to adopt any particular value system. British author Jeaneane Fowler noted that “while atheism is a ubiquitous characteristic of secular humanism, the most that can be said of an atheist is that he or she does not have belief in any kind of deity; the majority of atheists have no connection” with secular humanism."

I don't see your point here. Simply because a federal court rules it a religion doesn't make it so. And it's pretty obvious from a legal standpoint why the judge considered atheism to be a religion. The definition that the Court used also is different from a layperson's:

"Without venturing too far into the realm of the philosophical, we have suggested in the past that when a person sincerely holds beliefs dealing with issues of 'ultimate concern' that for her occupy a 'place parallel to that filled by . . . God in traditionally religious persons,' those beliefs represent her religion."

"We have already indicated that atheism may be considered, in this specialized sense, a religion. See Reed v. Great Lakes Cos., 330 F.3d 931, 934 (7th Cir. 2003) ('If we think of religion as taking a position on divinity, then atheism is indeed a form of religion.')"

 

ALTER2EGO -to- GRASPING FOR PEACE:

Atheists are people who don't believe in a supernatural God or gods. Their belief is that they don't need a god to direct them on how to live. By default, that equates to being a "secular humanist." The U.S. courts recognized secular humanism as the atheist's theology and ruled accordingly. Below is the definition.

DEFINITION OF HUMANISM:

http://www.yourdictionary.com/humanism

Did you notice in Definition #2 it specifically says "nontheistic"? A nontheistic belief system is atheism. Did you notice the words in all caps where it says secular humanists feel they can do very well "without recourse to supernaturalism"? In other words, secular humanists (nontheists) are atheists, and their common belief system is that they do not need a supernatural God or gods to guide them.

Unless you can find an atheist who says he needs God to guide him or her, that person by default is a secular humanist whether or not he or she is willing to admit it.

 

I could easily be an atheist who believes that there is no god, but who also thinks that humans need some sort of supernatural something or other to guide them. I might just think that we're all lost/unguided and hopelessly so, since no gods exist. That would make me an atheist who is not a secular humanist. You're saying secular humanism is a religion (which it might be, I neither know nor care), but you certainly aren't making a good argument for atheism being a religion.

 

Here's the approved atheist grave marker emblem = http://www.cem.va.gov/cem/images/emblems/emb-16.jpg

http://www.cem.va.gov/hm/hmemb.asp

 

ALTER2EGO -to- BURZMALI:
There is no such thing as an atheist who believes humans need a "supernatural something" because atheists claim they don't believe in the supernatural aka God or gods.

The reason why atheists by default are secular humanists is because both terminologies are with reference to people who do not believe there is a God or gods. Not only that, as you can see by the definition for "humanism" quoted above, atheists insist they can do quite well without the need of a God or gods--which qualifies them as being secular humanists. The two terminologies: (1) atheist, and (2) secular humanist are intertwined. None can escape the other.


Definition of "supernatural"
1. existing or occurring outside the normal experience or knowledge of man; not explainable by the known forces or laws of nature; specif., of, involving, or attributed to God or a god
(Source: Webster's New World College Dictionary)
http://www.yourdictionary.com/supernatural?


Definition of "atheist"
one who believes that there is no deity
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheist


Definition of "atheism"
1. the belief that there is no God, or denial that God or gods exist
2. godlessness
http://www.yourdictionary.com/atheism?

 

Hey everyone, I just got back from my daily game of not playing golf.

 

And what of Buddhism, the Christian nontheistic religions, Hindu nontheistic religions, and Jainism?

Saying atheism is a religion is like saying theism is a religion.

 

So some Atheists, especially in the military have "spiritual needs". Having those, or wanting them addressed has no bearing on whether or not something is a religion. I don't know why they chose to call them chaplains, but I think it would be a pretty strong guess that it's because that's what chaplains of other world views are called. Just like "eye" of a storm isn't actually a seeing organ, just something that happens to overlap in certain ways and then the name stuck.

Did you have a look at the report in question? The category under which atheists are labelled is "No religion specified, Atheist". They simply answered in the most honest way you could to that kind of question, just like a bald person would have to answer "none" or "bald" on a similar survey about hair colour. The title "religious identification" was presented by the surveyers, not the surveyees. Besides, having a "religious identification" is not necessarily the same as having a "religion". I'm a bit unsure of the definitions, so I won't say anything for sure, but I will not take, without evidence, a claim that having a religious identification is equal to having a religion.

I agree that atheists often present secular-humanist views. I also agree that they (either referring to atheists or secular humanists) offer their views as a viable alternative to traditional religious systems. What I don't see is how that is an argument for atheism being a religion. Ham is an alternative to cheese for sandwich toppings, but that doesn't mean that ham is a type of cheese.

I didn't accept the court's authority because my views are outside its jurisdiction both geographically and juridically (btw, my specific question was why that should matter to me, feel free to answer that too), what makes you think that the Huffington post is a good alternative?