Is Zimmerman Guilty?

Yup, and I have no idea how they will do that. Just assumptions, guesses, name calling, conjecture.

They say,,''Well plenty of cases are won on circumstantial evidence....I agree, the circumstance is Zimmerman was attacked and shot Travon in self defense. What do they have? Who the hell punch's a person they are scared of because they were being followed, common sense says you would run and get into a house if you could.
He attacked Zimmerman because he was NOT scared of him, that makes much more sense. He was angry, and wanted to exact revenge.

Circumstantial? Conjecture? perhaps but it still trumps what they have come up with. To get that jury to believe he attacked Zimmerman because he was scared of him is in itself contradictory...

 

Surely this sacred responsibility rests in the hands of all souls and not just those evil gun owners right?

 

There aren't any.....i just read through all of the Florida CCW laws.....there are only rules about where you can not carry....(for the most part Margot and i are on the same side of this debate, but the inaccurate statements made as 'facts' are damaging my arguments...lol.....)

 

Does not mean crap during a trial. But perhaps in the sentencing if convicted.

 

And who the hell sees a kid walking 'suspiciously' around the neighborhood, and not knowing if the kid is armed, GETS OUT OF HIS CAR AND FOLLOWS HIM??? you say you wouldn't punch someone for following you, so tell me, if you saw someone suspicious....and thought they could be dangerous enough that you would need your gun, would YOU get out of your car to follow him?

 

I'm not sure about Florida law but in most places, when flight is a viable option then the use of force is not..

As far as Trayvon being scared, is it possible that he wasn't aware of the gun, rather he was anticipating a normal fist fight, and Zimmerman only took out his gun when they were up close in confrontation?

 

That is exactly what they should be doing, at least if the neighborhood watch is worth its salt. That is how we roll around here. Outsiders are scrutinized, because we live right next to a highway, easy in and easy out. Some burglaries have occurred. So we learned that everybody that doesn't belong warrants a set of eyes on them when possible.

Edit...

The mistake made here was doing it alone. The watch should have a pair of roving patrols.

 

Well, good post nice argument. I do not agree, with the exception that he will walk. I believe the physical attacker will be held to a higher standard then you assert.
You believe in guessing what was on Travon's mind rather than letting the physical evidence do the talking, you are giving him a totally made up excuse for the attack. You have no idea if Travon was scared of him, and even if he was would that still give him the right to attack him? I believe not.

''Judge, I was scared of him so I punched him'' I just cant believe that would fly. What would make more sense would be.....''I was angry with him so I punched him''
Would you attack somebody you thought could take you? Did Travon think he was about to be robbed? What was he scared of? If he thought Zimmerman was this big bad guy out to harm him wouldn't he think he may have a weapon? It totally makes no sense, and a jury will be looking for logic in my opinion.

 

Bingo! this DOES NOT mean that i think trayvon should have 'attacked' Zimmerman, (i use the term 'attacked' lightly, because in his autopsy reports there was only one mark on one knuckle from the "struggle") the poor kid should have just kept walking, or running home....., i can't help but wonder why the gun was out in the first place if he wasn't planning on being involved in a confrontation of sorts.

 

Of course, if the reason I was there was to watch for such things, I would want to see what he was up to. This is why George was there, and no doubt the reason for having a gun.

 

Anything is possible, and when you do not know one usually goes with the logical. It is not logical he would attack a man he was frightened of, it makes more sense he was angry with him.

 

I am not guessing what was on travon's mind.....I am going by what his girlfriend who was on the phone with him throughout the 'chase' said. So let me get this straight, punching someone who made you feel threatened and in danger after staring at you from a car and following you on foot would not be considered self defense...But, shooting a 17 year old in the chest for punching you in the nose would? I am not understanding the logic behind your arguments.

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That is your oppinion......not a fact. You yourself can only speculate on that particular part of the situation.

 

Yeah,,,this I just do not get. Why he did not just run and get into a house if scared. Why would you attack a person you are frightened of. Well, if I had my guess he was not frightened,,he was angry and wanted answers. As a young Italian boy I was watched in stores, it angered me.

 

"HANNITY: Let's start at the beginning.

ZIMMERMAN: I was going to Target to do my weekly grocery shopping. Sunday nights was the only nights -- well, Sunday after we mentored the kids, we would always go grocery shopping and do our cooking for the week."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hanni...immerman-breaks-silence-hannity#ixzz2L2Fv4ng9

FACT: He WAS NOT on patrol! that is NOT why he was in his car.... In his OWN WORDS he was going to Target to do his grocery shopping.

 

Travon did NOT have to approach him, George HAD to fight back,,,big difference.

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Agreed this is true, however I think most would say the same. Since we are dealing with a jury I believe they [or some] would think that.

 

George DID NOT have to get out of his car for any reason........

 

So?, Cops do not notice things even when they are off? George seeing himself in this way would notice these things. Nothing wrong with that.

 

I'm really not following this thing about him getting out of his car,,why not? Why couldn't he? What is it you are trying to say?

 

I am sorry to have to disagree with you, Flounder. But I STRONGLY disagree.

If you had spend more time in the Zimmerman's thread, and had a chance to read all the comparisons between Zimmerman's contradicting statements and the EVIDENCE that has been released to the public until now, as a fair person, I think you might think differently.

I would be happy to go back through some of the major inconsistencies between Zimmerman's statements and the forensics that are released. But it seems that most people who have decided that Zimmerman is innocent do not even bother to consider those STRONG and clear inconsistencies.

So, I will not tire you with a summary of these, unless you are truly interested, and then I will devote sometime in summarizing these.

Suffice to say that, unless Martin was a Ninja, and Zimmerman was unable to move any members, except for reaching for his gun (hidden in a holster INSIDE his waist band, placed on the back side of his hip) that was obviously situated BELOW the place where Trayvon was straddling him , and pull that gun not only out of the holster, but also between his own body and Martin's knees, to make a perfect, "DIRECT FRONT TO BACK" shot 1" from Martin's chest median line, and straight into the lung and heart (no angle, not up and down, not Left to Right!) while both men were "struggling" thus moving. . .It doesn't make sense.

There are obviously many more inconsistencies with what the forensic show (like, no blood or DNA from Zimmerman on Martin's hands, although Zimmerman demonstrates how Martin "smothered him" with one hand on his bloody nose and one on his mouth). . . but it is useless to provide them all again, because "one can take a horse to water, but can't make him drink."

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Correct. Zimmerman was ALSO NOT mentoring kids on Sunday!

 

There is still no proof that Trayvon approached him. Based on the phone conversation with his girl friend, he saw that Zimmerman was once again following him, and he asked him why he was following him. BIG difference!

Zimmerman could have deescalated the situation even at that time (he had already missed TWO opportunities by 1. getting out of his car. 2. not returning to his car) by simply explaining that he was the neighborhood watch captain and asking if Martin needed help to find an address.

And it appears that Zimmerman grabbed for Trayvon, maybe to restrain him until the police arrive (remember, he didn't want Martin to flee. .because "those punk always get away").

 

This was my response to your statement "This is why George was there, and no doubt the reason for having a gun. " ....completely false statement......
"and no doubt the reason for having a gun".....he needed a gun to go to target? i'm getting confused.....

 

It seems to me a lot of people are putting a lot of en-fices on George getting out of his car. We know this, it was not against any law, and seeing that he was a person involved with a neighborhood watch it is not strange he would do that. If everybody attacked people they thought were following them this country would have an awful lot of attacks. The law simply does not allow this, physical violence is NOT acceptable.

So, it seems strange they would be overly concerned with him getting out of his car, but not so much the physical attack. The jury will not look at it like that, I doubt it.

 

There is something wrong with that when you have agreed to the rules of the HOA to NOT carry a gun when "looking out" and to NOT follow someone suspicious.

There is something wrong with that when you are told you don't have to follow and that the police is already on its way, and you KNOW you will follow anyway. . . so you tell the dispatcher to have the police call you on your cell phone instead of meeting you at your car.

There is something wrong with that when a wannabe guard shoots a teenager because he got a bloody nose and a couple of scratch from a fall!

There is such a clause in the Florida "self-defense law" that limits the self-defense plea when deadly force is used, especially on an unarmed person (much less a teenager) who has the RIGHT to be in that location.

 

You keep saying WHY would trayvon hit someone if he was scared of him.... I am Saying WHY whould Zimmerman get out of his car and follow someone he thought might be dangerous. Look, he WAS NOT a cop.....he did the right thing calling the cops, they were on there way. This whole damn thing could have been avoided if he had just STAYED IN HIS CAR. the police would have come and dealt with trayvon in the neccessary way.
You're arguement is that Trayvon did NOT have to hit Zimmerman, but Z HAD to protect himself. The only reason he HAD to protect himself is because he got out of the car! (FACT)

 

Funny you should say that! Remember, we still do not know who "attacked" first. What we do know is that if Zimmerman had not followed Martin, there would have been no confrontation.

And, I guess you consider that hitting someone on the nose is a lot more violent than shooting someone with a gun and killing that person?