Part 3 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

That is not true.

You are wrong.

 

Quote Posted by Akhlut:

There's also the matter that YHWH could punish us for our sins, but a just punishment would not be infinite in length.
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You are rejecting God's eternal punishment strictly on emotional grounds. To you and many other atheists, eternal punishment just doesn't seem fair which in a human perspective is understandable. You ponder, how could a loving just God punish someone forever who has only rebelled a brief period on earth?

There are a few things to be said in response to this. First, how could a loving just God eternally reward someone who has only served Him the limited span of an earthly existence? No one seems to have a problem with that! The Bible tells us that everyone has sinned and turned away from God, refusing to worship Him as God and instead worshipping false gods and doing evil things.

Scripture tells us in Romans 3:10-18 NLT, "No one is righteous-not even one. No one is truly wise; no one is seeking God. All have turned away; all have become useless. No one does good, not a single one. Their talk is foul, like the stench from an open grave. Their tongues are filled with lies. Snake venom drips from their lips. Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness. They rush to commit murder. Destruction and misery always follow them. They don't know where to find peace. They have no fear of God at all."

What we all deserve is to be punished. If anything’s unfair, it’s that God allows anyone to be completely forgiven, through Jesus death on the cross. That means we don’t get what we deserve; it means we get forgiveness and eternal life, rather than judgment for our sins. That’s kind of unfair, but in a good way! And the gift of forgiveness is available to ANYONE who will put their trust in Jesus and follow Him.

The Bible makes it abundantly clear that our loving just God has never been characterized as being delighted in the possibility of a single soul ending in hell. Scripture tells us, "The Lord isn't really being slow about His promise, as some people think. No, He is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent." 2 Peter 3:9 NLT

Hell was initially prepared for lucifer and his angels and not humans. "Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons." Matt. 25:41 NLT

God has made every possible provision so that humanity might avoid eternal punishment. Who can fault the justice of God in the light of Christ’s death?

Eternal separation from God is a matter of human determination. Paul defends the justice of God in imposing destruction upon rebellious men in his letter to the Romans: "God has the right to show His anger and His power, He is very patient with those on whom His anger falls, who were made for destruction. He does this to make the riches of His glory shine even brighter on those to whom He shows mercy, who were prepared in advance for glory." Romans 9:22-23 NLT

This means that temporal crimes will have eternal consequences in hell. It may seem unfair, it is no less fair than what God does for those of us who have accepted His free gift of forgiveness. While sinners who reject God temporally are punished eternally, saints who accept God and serve him temporally are offered eternal reward. Those of us who love God don’t argue much that we shouldn’t have eternal reward, but we are quick to flinch when we think about the possibility that those who reject God will have eternal torment as their punishment! If we are willing to accept the possibility of an eternal reward that does not seem equivalent to our temporal goodness, we need also to be ready to accept the truth of eternal punishment that seems to exceed our temporal badness!

With all said, now the present time is a good time for the non-believers to re-think what they are putting their faith in.

 

Yeah. Tell that to the Egyptians since they mention no flood and the pyramids show no signs of having ever been under. Since they were constructed long before your flood. That babble verse is great but it proves nothing.....

http://talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html#history

http://www.goatstar.org/were-the-egyptian-pyramids-ever-underwater/

So how do you explain people living in Egypt long before and after your flood? I mean it was suppose to have wiped out the whole earth. How does a country continually be inhabited if it was wiped out by a flood? Cannot (*)(*)(*)(*) your way out of this one....

 

Quote Posted by Akhlut:

Not really. If YHWH can't prove itself without someone already believing, then that's not really good evidence. If YHWH wants converts, especially from people who are genetically predisposed to skepticism (which, assumably, would be YHWH's handiwork), then YHWH needs to provide evidence that isn't an old book that purports to be its own evidence.
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He already revealed Himself to us, when He sent His only begotten Son Jesus Christ our Lord Savior to save mankind from the destructive power of sin some 2,000 yrs. ago. It is prophesied that oneday our Lord Savior Jesus Christ will return and reign on this earth for a thousand years.

What do you want Him to do in the meantime, come visit you one night and have some hot milk and oreo cookies, have Him tell you old biblical stories from the past, show you a few miracles before He tucks you safely into bed?...lol Such arrogance, to think that out of the billions upon billions of people who ever lived, He is going to visit you so you could finally believe in His existence...lol

Or do you want Him to spell out in the clouds every now and then, "I am who I am"?

We just have to wait for His return oneday. It the meantime we have to keep our faith in Him!

 

Maybe another 2000 years.....Faith? Yep. Thats all you got to prove him..

That would be nice. I always wondered if MYTHS could write since he never wrote a damn thing!

Hows that working out for ya?

 

Quote Posted by Akhlut:

YHWH is narcissistic and prideful. Odd traits for a supposedly omnipotent deity.
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That is coming from an atheist, who of course will be emotionally biased and untruthful.

God is omnipotent (all powerful), omniscient (all knowing), omnipresent (present everywhere), unchanging, sovereign, wise, holy, righteous and just, faithful, true and truth, good, merciful, gracious, love, spirit, wrathful are some of His traits.

He has never been characterized as being narcissistic and prideful but of course when it comes to untruthful atheists that is what He is to them...such dishonesty!

 

Quote Posted by Stagnant:
If it turns out the Muslims are right, would it be fair to say that you "chose" to go to the Muslim version of hell? No! This whole argument, that we "chose" is bull(*)(*)(*)(*).
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How could the muslims be right when their founder has his bones lying dormant somewhere in the ground, while the founder of Christianity lives on?

 

Don't all prophets "live on" hence how Moses and Elijah were speaking with Jesus...

 

Where are the bones? You made the claim now show us where they are? As far as that goes your jesus could have ended up on a garbage heap in the street or in the Graveyard of the Condemned in an unmarked grave. Yeah thats right it was common practice to toss worthless bodies out the dogs.

 

Causing suffering is evil, causing pleasure is good. If YHWH were as good as you say, YHWH would be only too happy to bestow infinite pleasure upon us.

Why should YHWH care? YHWH is perfect, so worship is superfluous to it. If YHWH is benevolent, YHWH would want to bestow eternal happiness because it is the right thing to do, regardless of the actions of feeble creations it has deigned to create.

Wee, epistles. Provide me something that isn't the Bible.

Infinite punishment for finite transgressions. That's a pretty good working definition for "most evil thing that can be done".

Yes, that's why he was so quick to murder all the first-born children of Egypt, flood the earth, and otherwise engage in bloodthirsty actions at the drop of a hat.

Too bad Judaism got pretty much all of its ideas of demons and angels from Zoroastrianism, so why should I trust anything about demons and angels in the New Testament, since that's all imported ideas from Zoroastrianism?

Except for, you know, not sending anyone to Hell.

Everyone who can use logic and rational thinking.

Self-serving claptrap from a man who went about murdering other human beings as sport. Why should I trust him?

Again, if YHWH is benevolent and loves us, there is no reason to establish Hell.

Pascal's wager is pretty much (*)(*)(*)(*), as it assumes that using faith as a wager against hellfire pleases YHWH as much as sincere belief and far more than thoughtful rejection of a preposterous idea. If YHWH just wants lip service from selfish people who just don't want eternal torment, why should YHWH be worshiped?

 

Quote Posted by Akhlut:

So,YHWH is an angry tyrant. Why do I want to worship a malevolent dictator?
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When God gets angry, it is because of sin. One thing He will not tolerate is sin. We must remember that God sees things from an eternal perspective, and His ways are not our ways (Isaiah 55:8-9). The Apostle Paul tells us that God is both kind and severe (Romans 11:22). While it is true that God's holy character demands that sin be punished, His grace and mercy remain extended to those who are willing to repent and be saved.

When reading scripture in the bible about the sinful Canaanite peope, the Canaanite destruction provides us with a reminder that while our God is gracious and merciful, He is also a God of holiness and wrath.

 

The whole point of Islam is that Muhammad was simply a man who was delivering the message of YHWH/Allah, so Muhammad being dead and mouldering in the earth is not a strike against Islam as far as that goes.

Plus, Muslims would say that Jesus was assumed bodily into heaven so that he can return to prepare the world for Judgment Day as the Mahdi comes down as well. So, again, the idea that Jesus is still alive only confirms the Muslim faith as well.

Cripes, take a few comparative religion classes or something.

 

Oh, so YHWH's an abusive parent. That's so much better. :V

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YHWH demands worship when it is entirely unnecessary and superfluous. If a person were to do the same thing, we'd characterize that as narcissism and pride.

 

Why does a child die every three seconds, from starvation or fouled water?

 

You really don't want them to answer that. They will blame it on man not their god.

 

Yes the Bible said "flood" for 40 days and 40 nights, we now know how typhoon or storms travel they move, what the Bible said is IMO a general claim of flooding, 40 days this would mean that for 40 days super storm and super typhoons ravage by moving from one area to the next it probably started in Mesopotamia, to Africa, Europe, Pacific, etc. Then the Bible focus its story on Noah and in his region, for Noah the world is the area that is known during that time therefore the Bible is correct to say world wide flood or flooding the whole earth. Who knows what is happening at the rest of the world? No one knows all we know is what science has discover that devastating typhoons is a frequency especially in the Pacific rim. In fact as I have mention Netherlands should have long time again been swallow by flooding but thanks to modern technology it still exist.

Earth human population is thinly in small villages spread out all over the world probably 4000 years ago human population total only 1 million maybe less? We also know that in medieval Europe the "black death" killed or depopulated Europe by more than 50%.

Because the Noah flood strictly focus only on Noah and in his known region we can only theorise just like scientist are theorising as to what happen 4000 years, a volcanic eruption in Java that took out entire islands is not known from people of Sodom 2000 years but for people in Java it is the end of the world for them.

 

Correct, just like guns don't kill, men do.

 

Well first of all Muslims believe that Jesus is just a man so how can a mere man rise up to heaven bodily? That is fantasy read Arabian Nights.

 

You just admit I lie, you are being untruthful.

 

How am I being untruthful by saying you're a liar? You were just caught telling a lie about how I didn't believe in erosion.

 

Because YHWH/Allah decided to use Jesus for a purpose. He's commonly considered to be the second greatest prophet of YHWH/Allah.

Plus, people living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

 

If this would happen the entire US seaboard would be wiped out and that is what scientist have been predicting that is why all the many preparation. 4000 years ago cities are not what we know as it is today. These stories exist because there were survivors, survivors who then pass down the disaster event and experience generation after generation so that we don't forget so that we can be ready the next time in occur. Remember the entire dinosaurs world wide disappeared, up to now no clear explanation just theories. The Incas disappeared no explanation too, probably there were many other tribes that disappear too we don't know yet. Survivors of the great flood continue to repopulate the earth continuing new and creating new tribes.

Again, the Bible focus its flooding in Noah and in the Mesopotamia region only, we also know now how severe weather condition can be in the Pacific rim. Do we really know what happen outside of Noah's earth? No we don't we, just like the scientist can only come up with theories. The problem is you won't have problem with scientific theories but you will have problem with biblical theories, it is because bible people do accept a creator?

The more science progresses the more it learning about the Bible does make sense they are now able to explain how the nine plagues could have happen, how the red sea departed, how the walls of Jericho collapse, how Jesus raise Lazarus, what happen to Moses, how Moses knew where to cross, and now the most compelling they are learning how Jesus resurrected.

 

No, it wouldn't be. You're right that the people who wrote Genesis didn't know about most of the rest of the world. However, are you saying that your God didn't know about the rest of the world?

4,000 years ago? Try several tens of millions if not over a hundred million people. What does the Black Death have to do with the Flood?

Where does Genesis declare that the worldwide flood only occurred in actuality in Mesopotamia?

 

Dinosaurs died out? Tell that to birds who continue on the dinosaur lineage to this day. And are you seriously suggesting that most of the dinosaur species dying out 66 MILLION years ago has to do with a flood you claim happened 4,000 years ago?

The Incas didn't disappear, they were conquered by the Spanish and they still exist today as an ethnic group in Latin America just as the ancestors of the Aztecs and Mayans still live in the areas of their predecessors.

Also, this happened 500 YEARS AGO. What does this have to do with something you claim happened 4,000 years ago?

Once again, the Bible says nothing about the entire Earth only being Mesopotamia in the context of Genesis.

Just... no.

 

If this interpretation of bible stories is accurate, that they are simply regional truths in spite of saying that the whole earth is covered, then is the Adam and Eve story also just regional to Eden and other people were kicking it elsewhere on the globe but it just doesn't talk about it? Maybe that is where Cain and Abel found wives. Some other regional Allen and Eva were knocking boots and had daughters.
You are opening a very destructive can of worms to your myth.