Part 6 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

And the filth of politics had already been well established.

 

I believe the Pope established the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception to assure the position of Mary in the Church at a time when it was being opposed by some Cardinals...but this is only my opinion. I'm Orthodox and I know it infuriated the Greek Orthodox Patriarch in Constantinople and his Synod, but not because of the doctrine, but rather because the Pope had taken it upon himself to establish it, and that set a dangerous precedent.

As for the doctrine, I don't think it has been fully defined...or so I heard from Orthodox priests who are involved in dialogue with the Catholic Church. We do hold Mary in high esteem though. I know that our bulwark of Orthodoxy Saint Gregory Palamas, who fought the Barlaam heresy in the thirteenth century said that Mary contained the Creator of the universe in her womb, and by doing so she became the boundary between heaven and earth so that no one, not even the saints can get to heaven without going through Mary.

 

All one needs do is pray to get to heaven ? Interesting ... we now have 3-4 options on the table

1) works
2) faith alone
3) some combination of 1& 2
4) Just say the Lords Prayer

Im curious, do you only have to say the prayer just once to get into heaven or do you need to pray 5 times per day as per the requirements of Islam ?

 

OK. I don't. Cause you're the 1st person I seen say something like that. So don't post something that is not verifiable and being ridiculous.

 

If you say the prayer even once, it's a beginning. God works a person's heart little by little in order to perfect it.

 

The filth of politics did exist, but it was between the Patriarch of Constantinople (New Rome), with the Patriarch (Pope) of the Old Rome. There was a power struggle between them, with some schisms (like the Copts & Armenians) thrown in, and a few heresies as well. There's a thousand five hundred years of Christian history that you don't know about.

 

I didn't ask if you believe it, I asked if you believe I read it. As for me I do believe it, because the reasons given by Gibbons as to why Constantine would move Rome to the Greek colony of Byzantium, are a little too far fetched. It's as if he believed Constantine was so brilliant and clairvoyent that he knew Rome would be sacked and fall in prestige, and that the new Rome on the Bosporus would be able to survive for over a thousand years. Yeah right Gibbons, take another guess.

 

I find it interesting that you claim to know how God works. This is a bold statement that you can not possibly support but, rather than get into how you think you know this for a fact I would like to ask if you have considered possible alternatives.

Have you ever seriously considered the possibility that God does not exist ? ... never mind the possibility that if God does exist you may not know how God works.

I would claim that people who pray, regardless of the God they pray to, are generally engaged in self reflection and this leads to self improvement.

If the claim is that self reflection and a desire for self improvement leads one closer to enlightenment I would tend to agree.

Christ also claimed that God is within. This journey of self reflection could be likened to a search for the God within rather than an appeal to some external being.

 

There is no alternative. You either accept God by opening up your heart to Him, or you don't.

Yes, I was an atheist when I was young, very young. As for knowing how God works, it's common knowledge.

No, the improvement comes from the Holy Spirit. We do believe in the Father, (Creator), Son (Word) and the Holy Spirit (Comforter). Have you ever noticed when devout Christians suffer heartbreak, for example the parents of the Amish children killed a few years ago, how they never seek revenge? Well it's because of the inner peace given to Christians by the Holy Spirit. This is why The Holy Spirit is known as the 'Comforter'.

 

You missed the point. I meant an alternative explanation for what you think are the workings of God.

The fact that a myth is common knowledge does not make it true.

If there is a spirit guide that is helping you improve, there is no way for you to know the name of that spirit guide. The name of your spirit guide could be Satanial for all you know.

My gal and I got free tickets to see a the "world renouned" psychic Sylvia Brown once. It was interesting to find out that she was a Christian however her views on spirits were vastly different than yours. People would go up and she would give the actual names of their spirit guides/gaurdian angel.

It could also be that when one engages in self reflection through prayer/meditation one taps into an inner power which is mistaken for a "spirit guide".

I tend to go with the OT warning and try not to mess with the spirits. My close family consists of one who is high up in the clergy, head of all the Churches in a large area within a well known Religious denonomination. Part of his Job is to hire and fire ministers and settle disputes in the Church.

At a certain Pentacostal Church (a rarity for this denomination but they exist) folks engage in "speaking in tongues". I have been to this church and liken the practice to a voodoo cerimony where those under the spell spout gibberish.

They of course claim that this is the holy spirit (direct communication with God) and there is one who acts as an interpreter for the one spouting the gibberish.

A serious problem arose that was dividing this Church and my relative had to resolve this dispute. The problem was that there was conflicting and contradictory messages coming from two different people. (Contradictory messages from God)

Obviously at least one of the messages was not from the Holy Spirit. Both adherents were convinced that their message was the true message from God.

Jesus himself comments on the cause of a house divided. If or when Satanial shows up he is not going to be sporting a set of red horns and a tail.

The bottom line is that there is no way to know the nature of the spirit you are dealing with so it is best to not deal with them at all IMO. It is a truly vein human that thinks they can outwit the worlds greatest deceiver.

 

Gibbons was a historian. Also, seems anti religious.
But Constantine was driven by power. It would seem, IMO, dangerous to believe he had mankinds interest at heart when directing the bible creation.

 

Through God's grace is how one gets to heaven. The works based system of salvation is foreign to the message of Christ.
A common perspective is that one enters heaven dependent on a continuum of good an evil, where one hopes their good acts outweigh their bad ones but although this perspective is common, it is biblically incorrect.

Scripture tells us, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV

Grace is God's unmerited favor, it is a gift demonstrated most fully in the sacrifice of Christ. In short, the only way to heaven is through Jesus, Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." John 14:6 NLT

As for prayer, you pray anytime you want to, there is no set requirement. Most people like to pray before they go to bed but as I have said you can pray anytime.

 

So let me get this straight Mitt. Before us is the doctrine of Sola Fide.

A doctrine that, from the time of Constantine, was not the doctrine of the Church and still is not the Doctrine of the Catholic nor Orthodox Church to this day.

A doctrine that was condemned by the James, brother of Christ, as a foolish doctrine.

A doctrine was adopted by Protestantism, and only by Protestantism, 1500 years after the death of Christ and divides Christianity to this day.

Yet you, fundimentalist protestant Mitt, have figured out the answer to this question based on two Bible verses. The first verse you give is not from the mouth of Jesus and the second verse does not necessarily imply salvation by grace. ( Jesus refers to himself as the gatekeeper and Judge, Matt 25 is one example, so yes you have to go through Jesus at some point)

The way Jesus separates the sheep from the goats on judgement day is by works but nevermind.

What I want to focus on here is the audacity of your statement that "works is foreign to the message of Christ" given that the majority of Christianity catagorically does not believe this doctrine (Orthodox and Catholic) and that it is doubtful that a large percentage of Protestant ministers would make this claim so dogmatically.

Who do you think you are ? and how is it possible that you can be on this site day after day and be so ignorant of the Bible ?

Do me and yourself a favor and go to the Bible right this instant and find 3 examples from the Synoptic Gospels where Jesus states what is required to get into heaven. You could scroll back in this thread because I have posted at least 3 to you already or you could do something rare and actually read the Bible for yourself.

Then we shall revisit this question. (feel free to use Matt 25 above as one of your examples)

 

Quote Posted by AlphaOmega on pg. 15 #142 of Part 3

why is there any punishment at all Why did Jesus have to pay for our sins? What would have been the outcome if jesus didnt pay for our sins, would god punish us again? Why doesnt he just let us live our lives in peace without punishing everyone at the drop of a hat and threatening eternal damnation? Why does he feel the need to punish us at all? That in itself seems evil to me.
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Sin deserves punishment. God hates cruelty, violence, treachery, all things that knowingly (not accidentally) destroy people, community, trust, joy, innocence, and beauty. We humans simply could not exist without large amounts of decency, loyalty, and social justice.

Any decent human being should be outraged at crimes against the poor, child abuse crimes, domestic violence, crimes against the elderly, at institutional hypocrisy that remains arrogantly insensivtive to the real needs of real people.

Moral outrage by moral agents at moral atrocities is a mark of moral authenticity and so why would we expect God the Author of moral agents to be less moral than we?

So in the after-life God is going to punish those who don't believe in Him, who are defiant and unrepentant of their sins, who have rejected Jesus Christ as their Lord Savior.

If Jesus didn't pay for our sins then we would all be punished for our sins....that's right all of us and deservedly so!

So we believers love our Lord Savior Jesus Christ with all our hearts and souls, for He took the punishment for us that we deserve, Jesus being sinless didn't deserve that punishment He took on the cross. But His sacrifice was the payment for the sins of mankind.

God wants everyone to come to Him. Scripture tells us that, "For God loved the world so much that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 NLT

 

What in the mutha fuka does this reply mean?
Saying the ghandi's of the world instills cruelty, violence, treachery, etc. Buddah?

Delusional???? Some posts just have to be nutso or the base of the nutsoism is.

 

WTF does one have to do with the other here?
Of course any decent human will be outraged

What does this after-life and punishment have to do with human beings being

I fail to see the connection.

 

As a born, baptized, confirmed, lutheran.

Are christians that reply in this thread, really this absolute stupid?

Or is is just non lutherans that are this stupid?

And I apologize to those offended. But this thread is offensive.

 

Mitt. Once again you are pretending to know what God thinks and claiming to speak on behalf of God.

Did God tell you personally that he hates all things violent and things that knowingly destroy people ?

You clearly have no clue about much of Christian doctrine (as evidenced by my last post to you and to which you have no response) but now you claim to speak for God as God's messenger on Earth on equal footing with Yeshua.

 

Is there any wonder why the youth of the world are confused.
Just look at what guides them!!!!!!!!!!

 

I of course, agree 100%.

 

He told Eusebius to commission several Bibles since so much scripture had been destroyed by his predecessor. At that time though, the Church had not officially agreed as to which books belonged in the Bible. That would come later.

 

Quote Posted by Akhlut on pg. 15 #143 of Part 3

Then why isn't YHWH a universalist?
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Universalism, or the belief that everyone will be saved and go to heaven, is an attractive notion to many Christians, and a view that many atheists wish Christians would adopt.

Unfortunately, it's incompatible with Scripture, thus God is not a universalist.

I've been saying the same things over and over on these threads, we are on Part 6 now, the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ, anyone who rejects Jesus Christ as their Savior will not go to heaven but will go to hell as written in Scripture.

 

I am not talking about spirit guides, (demons), I am talking about the Holy Spirit Who is part of the Holy Trinity.

Anyone can say they are a Christian. To be baptized only illuminates one towards Christianity. To be a true Christian one must acquire God's 'Holy Spirit' within them.

A spirit guide is a 'demon'.

I find many Pentacostals elitists, which is pride and pride is the antithesis of holiness. Of course within every denomination there are true Christians. Jesus said we must judge the tree by the fruit it bears, so if a Christian has humility, kindness and charity, then we know that he/she is a true Christian. If on the other hand, the fruit someone bears is arrogance, greed, and intolerance, they can't be a Christian, or at least a very immature one.

 

I think this is a very Western way of looking at God. I don't see how a God of Creation and Pure Love is capable of hating anyone or anything. How can Pure Love be capable of punishing anyone? How can God negate from what He Himself Created, wouldn't it be an oxymoron? When the OT presents God as hating something or as a punishing God, it was because that was the only way people at that time could understand.

God is incapable of punishment. It's People themselves who create the climate which brings about destruction whether it's through wars or through natural disasters. The earth itself repulses them. Saint John Kronstadt said all of humanity is interconected and he used as an example; if you look at someone through a window, in a short while they will turn around to see who is staring at them. The more recent Elder Porphyrios says in his book 'Wounded By Love':


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Man has such powers that he can transmit good or evil to his environment. These matters are very delicate. Great care is needed. We need to see everything in a positive frame of mind. We mustn’t think anything evil about others. Even a simple glance or a sigh influences those around us. And even the slightest anger or indignation does harm. We need to have goodness and love in our soul and to transmit these things.

We need to be careful not to harbour any resentment against those who harm us, but rather to pray for them with love. Whatever any of our fellow men does, we should never think evil of him. We need always to have thoughts of love and always to think good of others. Look at Saint Stephen the first martyr. He prayed, Lord, do not hold this sin against them. We need to do the same.

 

It is important to recognise that the Trinity is a man made concept. The disciples did not believe that Jesus was God (as in God the Father) and neither did the early Church Fathers (The Trinity is a topic for another time perhaps).

The baptismal formulation of the early Christians was "in the name of Jesus" not "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit"

Anyone can say they are a Christian. To be baptized only illuminates one towards Christianity. To be a true Christian one must acquire God's 'Holy Spirit' within them.

Jesus did not teach this. God acted numerous times in the Bible to inspire people, sometimes through angels, but only in rare cases did God intercede directly.

To claim that God is inside you is a bit of different claim. The Bible teaches that God is inside all of us which is the same as saying the holy spirit is inside all. Jesus taught the same.

One does not ned to aquire something that one already has.

If one is trying to "aquire" a spirit, then one is trying to aquire a spirit. spirit = spririt guide

This aquiring of a spirit is like trying to corral God and put him in a bottle like a Genie. Jesus says that the kingdom of God is within.

Even if one does corral a spirit for a little while, there is no way to tell what the nature of this spirit is.

Judging someone by the fruit they bear is in keeping with the teaching of Jesus which state salvation is through works. Jesus claimed to be the Judge at the end of days and he will Judge on the basis of works, regardless of whether or not one calls themselves a Christian or a follower of Jesus.