The West Bank (Judea and Samaria) are definitely Jewish... - - - Updated - - - Yes of course Jordan INVADED Israel in 1947-1948 and kept Judea and Samaria under their yoke for 19 Years.
My friend you are describing yourself quite well... Borat has nothing to do with your childish Arab slogans.
Not when it's a retaliation and I am glad you've stopped using the word "invasion", you are constantly embarrassing yourself with your hyperboles, laughable revisions of history and utterly one-sided selection of events. - - - Updated - - - Anyone's claim to the truth always needs to be checked. Duh! I just checked yours and it turns out there never was an Israeli invasion, you created it out of thin air. LOL
All states play games and the fact that the UN does absolutely nothing about Arab terrorism (or anything else on the planet earth for that matter) absolutely validates my point that I was talking about people with a brain. Perhaps Israel and the US participate in the UN to convince those who have no brain, like the Brits for example, those who believe that the UN matters. LOL
Tell Erskine Shyster to check the following : ירדן היא פלשתין Jordan is Palestinian - Mudar Zahran http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiM4aQoTo1o
No discussion of the message. Just a personal attack on the poster .... for the n'th time. Violates Forum Rule 2 .... for the n'th time. HB, if your quiver is empty, don't go into battle ululating.
This position is indefensible. In the past you have attempted to show that the Mandate proves this and have been trashed with facts: # You were SOOO trashed in one debate that you went so far as to admit that ALL of original Palestine was designated to be a Jewish homeland was incorrect. You did that here - http://www.politicalforum.com/middle-east/103562-jordan-palestine-16.html#post2012806 # Yet even so you have returned many times claiming that the Mandate allowed the creation of a Jewish STATE in all of Palestine instead of the 'Homeland' which is just so clearly spelled out in the document. You were caught out. In fact you made this claim on numerous occasions and were shown your attempted distortions of the historical facts on each occasion. # You then tried to produce three "experts" in an attempt to "prove" the same point, but were shown that they were utter charlatans when they made the same claim. Charlatans because, while they were undoubted legal experts, they besmirched their credentials by lying outright. The words of the Mandate refuted them 100% in various places. # In further support of this trashing you were shown that "The British White Paper of 1922" made the point explicitly that a Jewish State in Palestine was not intended. You then went into wartime radio silence, only to ignore it by popping up again with the same claim a few weeks later - http://www.politicalforum.com/middle-east/132062-who-owns-jerusalem-legally-9.html#post2616833. # In trying to prove that Judea and Samaria were part of Israel initially, you even went to the amazing extent of claiming that 'San Remo' and the Mandate for Palestine approved a partition for the creation of Palestine. It was an outright lie. You did that here - http://www.politicalforum.com/middl...lis-said-yes-few-questions-5.html#post2604709 # In your zeal to "prove" this Judea and Samaria are part of Israel, you went so far as to cherry-pick a piece from the UN Charter and pretend that it was from the Mandate for Palestine - here -http://www.politicalforum.com/middle-east/17851-who-really-has-apartheid-32.html#post3033195. You were caught out. # To try to prove this point you have attempted on dozens of occasions to show that the Mandate is still in effect (the charlatan Rostow's fabrication that you follow). You were shown the clause in "181" that refutes this 100%. You were shown British correspondence from early 1948 to the UN Commission for Palestine which doubly refutes this "mandate continues" nonsense. Yet last week you were back, making exactly the same claim and putting the distorter Rostow on a pedestal.. Regularly regurgitating trashed claims is disruptive. It is deliberately designed to annoy members who research and reference their facts with care. Both these actions break Forum rules. This makes you a troll by forum definition. Please stop it. Also, if your quiver is empty, don't substitute by going into battle screaming insults. Ignoring the message and only attacking the messenger is yet another forum violation.
Why do you offer something which has zero to do with the content of the post that you pretend to be refuting? Mudar Zahran's presentation has debating merit. Don't misuse it. Post it where it is on-topic.
Sorry, Borat. Your understanding of international law and the UN Charter is clearly distorted. To show that Israel's cross-border aggression was a retaliation, you need to show that: 1) The Jordanian police border post that was attacked first had committed some or other crime. 2) That the citizens of Samu had committed some sort of crime. 3) That UNTSO lied in its report of the cross-border invasion. You are presuming facts that you have not yet demonstrated. Poor debating form.
It is such an interfesting presentation that I am going to post it in the "Palestine is Jordan" thread, where it will be on-topic.
I set out to show that there never was no Israeli invasion when you said there was, and I did. I demonstrated that the entire world viewed it as a military operation or an incident, not an invasion....your retort above that "whatever, Israel is still bad" is frankly petty, pathetic and childish. Next time will you please call a spade a spade, an invasion an invasion, a retaliation a retaliation....or be prepared to be debunked and ridiculed again.
Not so. Your fixation only on "invasion" is a clear deflection". In any event, you have still not shown where the Merriam-Webster definition of 'invade' does not fit what Israel did. Deflection and silence = FAIL!! Secondly, your are maintaining wartime radio silence when asked how Israel's opening attack, namely on the Jordanian police post at Rujm al-Madfa represents a retaliation. # What proof do you have that the opening Israeli salvo of the "incident" against the police at the Rujm El Madfa post was in retaliation for them having laid that landmine that killed the soldiers? [http://www.un.org/en/documents/index.shtml -- then search S/7593]. # Why did the Israelis hinder the investigation of the mine event? [same reference] # What proof do you have that UNTSO observer Colonel Jan Mühren and Belgian colleagues were lying when he said that no insurgents had crossed the border into Israel? http://www.deepjournal.com/p/7/a/en/729.html In fact the MAC believed that the attacks came from within Israel - but Israel prevented them from examining the tracks of the perpetrators. Why? - see Lt-Gen Odd Bull's report on this. Was it the same reason as their obstruction of the 1954 bus "incident"? You guys are running on empty quivers if you: # rely on hair-splitting semantics # avoid discussing the dictionary definition of the very word that you are refuting # cannot defend your claim of "retaliation" # Have no response to the merit of the vitriolic criticism leveled at Israel by both the USA and Britain for this "incident". LOL ... the word "incident" is almost as pathetic a descriptor for the deaths and destruction at Samu, as the Lavon "affair" is for terrorist plans against Western targets by Israel. Funny how Israel never describes much weaker incursions without any deaths in far more dramatic language. As I said .... your defence hangs on a semantic thread, compared to the barrage of evidence of gross Israeli aggression, exactly as stated by the USA and the UK, which you also fear to acknowledge. The MYTHs are crashing down - and no priests blowing trumpets are required, just simple referenced facts.
Really ? Now since Israel has - illegally/arbitrarily - annexed East Jerusalem + Golan ( - even according to closest allies ) why has it not officially annexed the West Bank/Occupied Palestinian territories ? And offered/granted full citizenship to those Palestinian living under IDF military administration ? Or would that be against Israel's "democratic " ideals ? .....
Invaded?? Israel was invaded?? What is the definition of invasion, Borat? Surely all of the PLO actions that you refer to were nothing more than incidents? . LOL (your favoured response) Instead, HERE is a REAL piece of unadulterated disgusting action, Borat. It is not an incident but something far more sinister and gut-disturbing a copy from another thread: http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=322721&page=5&p=1063124661#post1063124661 Now doesn't THAT make a Katyusha rocket scaring a passing goat ... the bulk of your Palestinian "invasions" ... pale into utterly insipid insignificance?
Yep, you got that right. A retaliatory strike at the terrorists is not an invasion by any stretch of imagination. A massive attack by combined armed forces of multiple [Arab] countries with the stated objective of wiping a UN member state off the map is undoubtedly an invasion and a war of aggression.
Are you SURE you want to agree with me!!?? I am quite surprised. So, you refer to my point 1) of Israeli aggression - 1) Israel invaded non-Israeli territory in early-1948 as a "retaliatory strike against terrorists. I will get to that in a subsequent post. What I first want to do is to trash the remaining 60% of your post: "A massive attack by combined armed forces of multiple [Arab] countries with the stated objective of wiping a UN member state off the map is undoubtedly an invasion and a war of aggression." # The "massive attack" by Arab countries only happened on 15th May 1948. I specifically mentioned the Zionist attack on Palestinians in early 1948; an attack which cleaned out well over half of the Palestinian settlements - men, women and children in their entirety - long before the Arab countries intervened. So your excuse of "a massive attack by Arab forces" hardly matches the historical facts. Such ethnic cleansing by the Zionists is a glaring case of aggression. I am amazed that you try to deny it. Please note that East Jerusalem was not Jewish-designated territory; in fact, no part of Jerusalem was. # Which was this UN member state that the Arab countries invaded in early-1948, or for that matter even in May 1948 or any time in 1948? Please explain.
that happened in your imagination only. Take any history book of any civilized nation on the planet, it will plainly and unambiguously state that 7 arab armies invaded Israel on the day it declared its independence and that their objection was to wipe Israel off the map and drive the Jews into the sea. Come on KK, don't let your imagination run wild, get a grip man, I am worried about you LOL
So you refuse to acknowledge that there was a whole heap of things leading up to that attack by the Arab forces? Seriously? You believe it just came out of fresh air? There was no "Transfer plan" by the Zionist leadership? There was no field campaign to put this plan into action? The Palestinian Arab settlements were depopulated by fairies at night? Their inhabitants were prevented from returning by trolls living under bridges? There was not Deir Yassin? There was no extended propaganda campaign to instill fear and flight? There was no shelling and mortaring of villages that showed no sign of aggression? According to you all of the foregoing is just my imagination and the hundreds of references to Israeli archives proving it, are just figments of my imagination? Do you only read Shmuel Katz's books and subscribe to Commentary Magazine, to enable you to conclude that the Arab invasion came as a massive surprise; a bolt out of the blue, because up until then the Zionists had been implementing "181" to the letter and had been lily-white in steering clear of any vestige of ethnic cleansing? I believe there is no hope for you. You have utter disdain for the historical record. You are obviously a MYTH fanatic. Next!!
Absolutely not. There was a civil war going on, started by the Arabs, there were non-stop terror attacks against Jewish civilian population carried out by Arabs, there was a huge effort by the entire Arab world to prevent Israel from being created and that indeed culminated in the totally illegal invasion of newly born state of Israel by 7 Arab countries, with the explicit goal of wiping it off the map and driving the jews into the sea.
"...driving the jews into the sea". Why is that phrase so familiar? Could it be that it's a favourite cliche of hasbara apparatchiks, and is trotted out each time some melodramatic hyperbole is needed? No, surely not...
Do you mean in the time while the Zionists were ethnically cleansing Palestinians from the land? Ah, yes, that Arab resistance ... I do remember having read about it. Get real Borat. Comparing the disgusting Zionist actions racism with the paltry Palestinian efforts is farcical. Be an honest Mensch .... Borat: # What Arab equivalent was there to Dar Yassin? # What Arab equivalent was there to the death march from Ramla? # What equivalents are there to the Zionist "cleansing" of Lydda and Jaffa? # Borat, for heaven's sake stop wriggling --- what started the first major event of the civil war; the Haifa refinery terrorist attack --- go on, have the chutzpah to answer. # Now here is you big challenge - in early 1948 how many Israeli settlements were depopulated by Arabs compared to the other way around. No strawmen; no deflections ---- PLEEEEASZZZZE -- just a straight answer. And you feign alarm that Arab countries decided to intervene???? I repeat the conclusions of my previous post: "I believe there is no hope for you. You have utter disdain for the historical record. You are obviously a MYTH fanatic."
Excellent!!! We are at last making progress and avoiding to some extent the deflections. So you agree that the horrors of Ramle, Deir Yassin, Jaffa, Lydda all happened. But is your latest position now that these and the ethnic cleansing of some 400 000 Palestinians was not an Israeli aggression? The thugs who were responsible for the slaughter known to the world as Deir Yassin were justified. Is that what you are claiming. Please try for once not to do a deflective wriggle. Many thanks, KK
Well, I am happy to see you've stopped disputing the undeniable fact that Israel was invaded against all international laws and norms by 7 arab countries which explicit goal was to wipe it off the map and drive the jews into the sea. Then again, how can you dispute the undeniable historical events recognized by the entire world...then again you are always trying LOL Now that you've tried to change the topic to attrocities and terror: -Kfar Etzion massacre May 13, 1948 127-157 Jews killed -Hadassah medical convoy massacre April 13, 1948 Arab militants 78 78 Jews (nurses, doctors, and patients) killed -Ben Yehuda Street bombing Feb 23, 1948 Arab militants, British deserters 55 55 Jews killed -January 9, 1948 Arab militants 35 35 Jews killed near Kfar Etzion -Palestine Riots August 23–26, 1929 Arabs 249 133 Jews, 339 Jews wounded -Safed massacre August 29, 1929 Arabs, British police (stayed passive) 20 18-20 Jews killed; 80 Jews wounded And thousands more terror attacks by arab terrorists against peaceful jewish population of Palestine.
