#2 Examination question for Womb Police cadets of the future-

2. A suspect attends an Hawaiian-style luau where she consumes large amounts of pineapple, papaya, and pomegranate juice. These induce a miscarriage. She claims she had no idea that those fruits were natural abortifacients, since the Holy Edicts make no mention of them....just "clinics" and "RU-486" and "abortionist doctors" and "instruments shoved into the fetal residence (aka uterus)". And thus pleads innocent to a charge of fetal murder.

How can she be prosecuted?

 

If abortion was illegal, it would be illegal for pregnant women to eat certain fruits, but first time offenders wouldn't get prosecuted (because of the fact that some women don't know that certain fruits are abortifacients, and they shouldn't be prosecuted for doing something they didn't know would cause a miscarriage.)

Another compromise idea is this:-abortions that happen with natural abortifacients would have much less stricter penalties than other abortions.

Also Gorn, you have a strange obsession with hypothetical questions.

 

1. So how would you ENFORCE a law against women eating certain fruits?

2. My "obsession"....shows how your dream is impossible.

 

It would be illegal to sell certain fruits to pregnant women.

 

You just said it would be illegal for them to eat them....now you say illegal to SELL them.

And how will the grocer KNOW that the woman is pregnant? Can't prosecute him for selling fruit to a pregnant woman, if you don't give him the means of TELLING if she is pregnant or not.

Try again.

 

If the woman has a bump, then she's pregnant.

 

Are all women with abdominal "bumps"...pregnant, Sam? Or is that too many cheeseburgers? How will the grocer know?

Plus the fruits act in the early stages of pregnancy before there even IS a "bump". So again, how will the grocer know?

 

Either pregnancy tests, or maybe there are no laws against certain fruits at all.

 

So

1. Grocers will have to administer pregnancy tests.

or 2. You now are contradicting yourself and you DON'T want certain fruits made illegal to sell??

Sam....regardless of whether you're being serious or just having fun....you DO see how ...again....your little fantasy of an "Abortion Prohibition"...is just that...a fantasy. Don't you?

 

I don't know what to say. Pasithea was totally right. Your hypotheticals are WAY too "over the top".

 

Sam, my hypotheticals....are based on YOUR desire. A nation-wide Abortion Prohibition.

And yes....THAT IS "over the top". Because as you see, it will be impossible to carry out.

Here endeth the lesson.

 

Queensland's criminal code actually has such a law in place and it bloody near came to be ratified in a court case in Cairns

I can attest to that - start an abortion thread in the Aussie forum and it dies for lack of disagreement - main view is that abortion like death is a fact of life

rest is here http://directaction.org.au/issue28/why_the_cairns_abortion_case_was_won

Worth reading because there are some sobering legal convolutions there - basically no-one, not even the prosecution wanted a law that would jail a woman for eating Papaya

 

But shows my hypothetical...isn't as hypothetical as guys like Sam claim. IF he were to get his way and see a national ban on abortion and the Womb Gestapo/totalitarian state that would be necessary to enforce it.

As I noted, I've posted on natural abortifacients before....it clearly stumped the "pro-lifers" who never heard of them and thought all abortions take place in "clinics" or with RU-486 (a few of them didn't even seem to know what RU-486 was ).

 

That is not what blows me away. What REALLY blows me away is how many think that contraception is 100% reliable. Honestly the degree of ignorance among the "pro-lifers" is more than concerning

 

The one that really blows me away is the reported fact that a full 1/3 of teenage American girls don't realize they can get pregnant from their first sexual intercourse and that so many have been convinced that condoms don't work that they don't bother using them .. both can be laid firmly at the feet of pro-life, right-wing conservatives and only adds to the evidence that even girls who have been indoctrinated into abstinence only sex education do and will have sex.

It is complete and utter bind stupidity of pro-lifers that think abstinence sex education and blatant lies about condoms will actually stop teenagers from having sex .. complete delusion, but of course none of that matters just so long as they can crow "look how moral we are"

 

The reason I am against contraception is because it promotes immorality. I'm not saying that it should be illegal (like some pro-lifers do), Im simply against it from a moral POV.

 

Even in todays internet connected world there is an AMAZING amount of ignorance out there about reproductive health

http://www.sexualityandu.ca/birth-control/birth-control-myths

Although it is probably true that a guy can't get pregnant if he does not reach orgasm

But it is not just lack of education it is also lack of access and pressure by partner

Some of these myths are hilarious (well they would be were it not for serious side effects) and they are not confined to the USA

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1441898.stm

 

There are no "Ethical Absolutes". "Moral" only means what is commonly accepted by the society in which you live. In America it is not immoral to walk down a city street in a bikini - this would NOT be "moral" in Saudi. if you really want to see how wide the gap in morality is around the world look up belching

But if you really want to reduce the amount of sex other people are having (building a Faster Than light drive might be easier) then look to the SOCIETAL factors that increase sex. Leaving aside, for the minute, the rampant sexuality in advertising and TV - let us look at common teen myths

 

1. Remember, some of them oppose contraception as well....guys like Rick Santorum.

2. Ignorance walks hand-in-hand with their Dishonesty. They deny they are misogynistic...but pin them down and you'll get them supporting a police state aimed at women.

- - - Updated - - -

So when you get married, if you get married, Sam....you and your wife will keep having children until she becomes menopausal. Even if gets to be 10-12-15 or more children, like Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar?

 

I'm not saying that contraception should be banned (like Rick Santorum says), but I disagree with Fugazi's idea that contraception should be made more available and cheaper.

 

Why?

 

Actually, I don't know.

 

Giving women abortion at no charge has been proven to lower the abortion rate. You are proving that your main concern is not "killing babies", but women choosing to have sex. You want the fear of pregnancy to keep women from choosing sex. That is evident from your stance that both birth control and abortion are immoral.

 

You really do come up with some inane comments, the saddest thing is you actually believe they are true .. sad,sad,sad

 

What evidence is there to support that claim?