The Immorality of Divine Commands

This doesn't necessarily have to be solely about divine command theory. The point of this thread is to determine whether or not religious morality, that is morality given to us by Gods through religions are compatible with the whole of human civilization.

Was the act of the Israelites slaughtering the amalekites moral because God commanded it? Is it moral to view gays as sinners, unnatural or sick because you believe your God says it is so?

If the morality of God doesn't have to jive with others view of morality because it is beyond us, who are we to say the Islamic suicide bombers are immoral? They are simply following the commands of their God. In fact the only thing you could say against them is that they are worshipping the wrong God and since belief is based upon faith there is no way to resolve the issue of their morality through religious ideals.

Why create humans without morality and then make reality entirely subjective and expect us to all come to the same conclusion based off of an obtuse book?

What is moral about forcing people to suffer and fail in order to convince them to love you and then punishing them if they don’t? Especially when billions of them won’t ever even hear his word because of cultural separations or being born before the revelations?

At some point believers must understand the cultural and moral road blocks that are put in place due to beliefs that will never be shared by everyone. Is the fate of humanity really dependent upon the whole of humanity following the right God?

 

these are all excellent questions.

let's hope a theist or two gives direct and honest answers!

 

Maybe you scared them away when you said direct and honest...

 

I think this is the 2nd thread in about 1 month with serious type questions being completely ignored by God believers. I say God believers because more than just christians could chime in.

Those are questions I was in search of and found no good answers.

 

When I get a Christian on the moral ropes, so to speak, he will sometimes admit that what God did was not moral but they still forgive him by deflecting to, we cannot understand his ways or God can do whatever he likes to us, moral or not, because he created and owns us.

That is the type of crap moral mentality that Christianity creates.

Let us pray to all the Gods that they come to their senses.

Regards
DL

 

A good question and a reason why I reject the dogma of organized religion. I have never understood why some need to read a book to find their morality. For me its simple... treat others the way I would want to be treated. I do not kill people when I am angry because it would suck to be killed by someone who was angry at me. I do not rob people when I need money because I think it would suck to be robed. I do not drink and drive because I think it would suck to be hit by a drunk driver... etc. To me morality is just self evident.

 

Get ready for the dodgy apologetics.

3...2...1...

 

waiting

waiting

 

Excellent OP .. but you do realize that you will not get an answer from any person of faith regardless of the god they choose to worship. It is these types of questions that the religious avoid like the plague for one reason they have no valid response.

 

14 days. Not one response from the religious side.
Speaks volumes.

 

Does a divine command destroy our free will as we are forced to do the divine will and not our own?

Do commands annul free will?

Regards
DL

 

I assume people would say no because it would be your choice to obey or follow the commands but it does suggest God wants us to forgo our free will and even our moral judgment and do what he tells us to.

 

A free choice that has a huge penalty, hell, for disobedience, is hardly a free choice to me. It is coercion.

I agree that much that he orders in scriptures ignore morals and God give many Satanic command to the ancients.

Regards
DL

 

All gods are imaginary; they don't exist as real supernatural entities. The God character in the Old Testament was the various Assyrian and Babylonian emperors who ruled the area and everyone in it. That's why God comes across as a homicidal maniac. He was just a man whose word was absolute. You might have noticed that God ceased to exist with the collapse of the Babylonian Empire. No one has heard a peep from him since then. He used to flap his jaws all the time but since then nothing but silence.

 

This I know.

The Godhead I know is quite natural and does not rely on fantasy, miracles and magic.

I have no proof though and that is why I push morals and not the Godhead unless someone cares to hear of it.

Without miracles, it is not nearly as sexy as the imaginary constructs.

Regards
DL

 

The idea of the Godhead is actually in conflict with the Old Testament, which has the future messiah reporting to Moses.

 

In other words, there is no free will...I only beg to differ, I will prone this as false..................

There is no God of your Bible(s), it is an impossibility.

 

True. The word God has now been distorted to a super God who is so far out of this world that anyone with half a brain will recognize that he is out of this world.

Where do you read what you said of the messiah and Moses?

The Jews knew even way back then that their myths were myths.

They also believed that each generation would have a Jesus or Moses or Isaiah etc.

Recall Jesus and his --- who do they say I am.

Regards
DL

 

It is not my bible as I am not a Christian, I am a Gnostic Christian. Your statement is a logical fallacy and a believer would show your statement to be a lie but other than that, I basically agree but would say it in a way that would not be a logical fallacy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyA8cIzosFU

Regards
DL

 

Being that we seem to have a few new posters in the religious and philosophy section I thought I might bump this in case any of them wanted to address the OP.

 

Morality was different then from what it is now. Morality evolves over time according to the changes in the societal environment. Good rules for the Bronze Age do not work well in the postmodern era.

Personally, I don't view most of the Old Testament as true history.

I haven't said the suicide bombers are immoral. But if I did, I would say something about the destructiveness of their means and their total failure to change any policy.

IMO they are acting morally, by their own standards. Their morality/society needs to adapt to current conditions before the bombing will stop.

Who said humans are born immoral? We are made in such a way that we can be happy. True happiness, for ourselves and the communities in which we live, is the result of moral action. Morality doesn't come from a book; books are static, while morals are dynamic.

Who says there is only one aspect of God to believe in? A being that transcends the universe can never be completely understood. Perhaps differing religions have seized on the various aspects of Godhead.

See above.

 

At some point non-believers must understand the cultural and moral road blocks that are put in place due to non-belief that will never be shared by everyone.

That re-wording makes it sound like a two way street.

 

It seems we are not in disagreement here.

This on the other hand is interesting. To answer your first question I would say that you say there is only one aspect of god to believe in because in your next sentence you define god as a being that transcends the universe and say that god cannot be completely understood which combined suggests that you believe god could be understood on some level. Which points to the problem I posed in the OP. As long as we attempt to understand god on any level there will always be opposing views that can only serve to impede our ability to improve the human condition.

What could be more absurd than people killing each other over differing views on what happens to us when we die?

Morality is clearly subjective but that doesn't make it less useful and as you said above it evolves which is why we must shed those ideals that impede it's ability to do so through static ignorance of something that can never be known.

MOD EDIT - Rule 2

 

Are you then suggesting that "morality" can never have a true meaning? If it can never be known, then the implied message is that it has no meaning... which in turn implies that all secular laws are meaningless as they establish a set of moral principles for society. What ideals is it that impedes the ability of morality to evolve?

 

I am stating that morality is subjective and that it evolves. Secular laws are not static like those derived from religion which is why our morality has greatly improved from the days when religious morality ruled the roost.

The point of the OP is that when groups of people consider their morality to be objective and absolute humanity will continue to suffer needlessly for ignorant reasons.

Shrink it down to three people, none of these people want to hear what the other has to say if it in anyway differs from what they already believe to be true. Moreover each one believes that the other desperately needs to understand their truth if the world is ever going to change for the better. Where is the resolution?