Israeli President; Peres: Recognition of Jewish state 'unnecessary'

Yes Hamas does not exist. Fatah Hakws does not exist. Hezbollah does not exist. The over 300 terrorist groups in Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Sudan, Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, The West Bank, Gaza who are in a declared state of terror action against Israel to destroy it, none of them exist.

Got it.

Thanks for that clarification.

Poof just like that Hezbollah and Hamas no longer exist.

Amazing how that works. First Moon points out to me I think I am a race, now you tell me these terrorist groups do not exist.

I am not sure what I would do without you 2. I feel assured now and I will telephone many Israelis starting with Gilos and tell them all those terrorist groups, they don't exist and that Gilos is not a race.

I know he was confused as was I.

Thank you so much.

 

Fabrication to the point of self-delusion

The Palestinians must have clearly-defined borders which provide their State with security from further Zionist attack and incursion. Israel must be held responsible for its neoZionist terrorists and its crimes dealt with by the United Nations through due process which is immune from the US of AIPAC veto.

Recognition of a ' jewish ' State is not only unnecessary, as stated by Peres, but logically impossible if Israel is to be a legitimate State under democracy.

One State under democracy is the alternative. Either way, neoZionism is buggered.

 

They are not "illegal". This forum does not pass laws. It does have rules. The rules state if you call someone a name that is a personal attack or is deliberately insulting its not permitted. Most forums have that policy.

In your case you regularly refer to what people have stated in insulting words to describe their opinions. Because you do not call them a name, just insult their opinions, you are allowed to do that.

Stop mistating the rules on this forum.

I stated and I will state it again, if someone using the pretext of criticizing Israeli state policies, criticizes Jews, not those policies, and engages in negative stereotypes of Jews, that is anti-semitic.

To say a Jew can not have a state but a Muslim can is anti-semitic. It discriminates. It says one people can have something the other can't.

In your words and the words of Snake and Trout, all three of you have made it clear you do not think Israel should exist as a state, that
Zionists are racist, that Jews who believe in the right of universal sufferage are racist, and you go on and on stereotyping in negative terms Jews claiming you can because they support the existence of Israel.

We have seen posing as discussion of criticizing state policies of Israel the depiction of holocaust surviving Jews as European invaders. That is anti-semitic. It has nothing to do with discussing Israel state policies and everything to do with ridiculing Jews who survived the holocaust.

Jews who survived the holocaust and fled to Israel being defined as European invaders is deliberately inflammatory and insulting. As a Jew who has relatives who could not flee, and others who did, to describe them as invaders is hateful and deliberately inflammatory but because you can claim you did not direct it at me personally you are permitted to say it.

Moon you can quote and flaunt the rules on this forum all you want but people will decide for themselves whether your comments, the comments of Trout or Snake or others when discussing the conlfict are hateful, incite hatred against Israelis, against Israeli Jews, against all Jews, against anyone who supports Israel's right to exist.

Your words speak for themselves and everytime you insult someone's words your hate in my opinion shows. when you dismiss peoples' opinions for example as "dollop" all you do is show you are disrespectful of the opinions of others. No more no less. It reflects on you and no quoting the rules on this forum changes that.

I bring it back again away from you and back to the thread. Using the pretext of what Mr. Peres may have said to justify using that thread as a pretext to simply bash anyone who supports Israel with closed stereotypes and insults achieves nothing. People still will express their opinions contrary to yours. You won't be able to shout them down or bait them into calling you names back so they get banned. No one will take that bait now.

Bottom line-Mr. Peres never stated what this thread claimed he stated. His words were taken out of their actual context and misrepresented.

That has been challenged and the thread pretty much came to an end until yet again it turned into a session to bash Israel and Jews who want to identify themselves as a national collective.

 

The complete lack of anything substantive compels you to rely on debating decorum as a refuge for your childish rhetoric . Your posts are a real tribute to the unfortunate ascendancy of form over substance.

 

The only criminals in this scenario are the Islamic Imperialist baby killing swine, unfortunately the Islamic Imperialist pigs run the UN General Assembly through the OIC, which is why their laughably biased resolutions do not have the force of law.

And yet Arabs and Muslims are allowed to have their states right Moon? Even though the Jewish state grants all citizens equal rights regardless of race, creed, or gender; whereas, the Islamic and Arab states engage in religious apartheid and gender segregation.

 

Let us once and for all end the misrepresentation of what Peres actually stated.

president Peres NEVER stated the Palestinian Authority does not need to recognize Israel as a jewish state for there to be peace. Never.

That is false.

What Peres did state is that the details of WHEN that recognition of the Jewish state could be sorted out after a PA state is created and not necessarily before its created.

It is absolutely false to state he said no recognition of Israel was necessary. What he commented on is the timing of when that recognition comes about. Peres wants Netanyahu to be more flexible on WHEN not whether that recognition comes about.

The point is moot. Mr. Abbas repeated again after Mr. Peres' s tatement that the PA will never recognize Israel as a Jewish state and went further to speak not just for Palestinians but all Arabs by stating and I quote, “the Arab states will never recognize a Jewish state.”

Prime Minister Netanyahu criticized him for two reasons. Firstly because as President he has no legal authority to comment on Israeli foreign policy. His role as President is no different than the Governor General of Canada or the Queen of England. He is a symbolic head of state, nothing else.

The second criticism came about because Mr. Netanyahu did already state on the record that he was not hung up on when that recognition came as long as it came. It is because Mr. Abbas has ruled it out as EVER coming, that Mr. Netanyahu has stated the talks are
pointless. How do you engage in peace when someone won't recognize your right to exist?

Mr. Abbas stands by the same position the Arab League did back in 1949. Nothing has changed. He has stated the only way he will recognize a state in Israel is if it ceases to be Jewish and the majority of its population is Muslim so that this would assure its a Muslim state.

That is what he stated. he has stated this repeatedly. He has stated the only way for peace to come about is to allow ANYONE who identifies as being Palestinian as long as they are not Jewish to come to Israel and be given automatic citzenship and land ownership and to take that land away from existing Israel citizens whether they be Jewish Israelis, Muslim Israelis, etc.

This is precisely why Arab/Muslim Israelis denouce Mr. Abbas. This is precisely why Arab Israelis have stated, no, we do not want the state dismantled and our rights taken away.

This notion you will only recognize someone if they cease to exist is precisely what mr. Abbas is arguing for and what Moon, Snake and Trout have supported.

Let's call it what it is-no change from 1949 and the desire to wipe Israel off the map.

This is why Mr. Netanyahu says and has unanimous agreement in Israel about-how does anyone expect Israel to recognize a Palestinian state when that state will not recognize Israel? Where is the quid pro quo. Why would anyone sit at a table and agree to not be recognized?

Why would Israel agree to not existing?

More to the point did anyone see the United Kingdom sit and talk peace with the IRA until they disarmed. Why is it when the UK said, no peace talks until you disband and recognize us as a legal entity, did everyone agree including the IRA but now in this scenario we use a different standard. Did anyone say the UK had to sit down while the IRA remained in a state of war with the UK as Hamas and Hezbollah and 300 other terror groups operating from Egypt, Sudan, Syria, Yemen, Sauri Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon are?


Of course not.

 

We can safely substitute ' illegal' for ' illegitimate '- the same way that the US describes the neoZionist squats in Palestine.

 

Just can't do it without the dull witted rhetoric.....can you.

 

No, it's simply that you- and those of identical mindset- are approaching the end of the road in terms of your bandying the insults ' jew-hater' and/or ' anti-semite '. You've become used to getting away with it, I know, but the rope is shortening.

It would be a blessing, actually. Please stop using it.

 

Nobody can give anyone, anywhere a guarantee of security. Not even mighty America is secure from attack.

 

Still avoiding the question, and not very convincingly.

 

You haven't heard me use any kind of rhetoric. None. You simply can't answer reasonable questions. End of story.

 

Discredited crap. The neoZionist State regularly commits racist acts against its Palestinian citizenry.

This facebook campaign has millions of supporters;

I Acknowledge that Apartheid Exists
https://www.facebook.com/IAcknowledgeApartheidExists

They'd all like to see your comical evasions, I'm sure.

 

That's why there's obviously no need for a comprehensive regional security agreement......because the issue apparently only concerns Palestinians.

 

A term promoted by disgruntled losers.

 

I have never suggested that Israel has no right to exist, and I challenge you to find even one of my many posts on the subject which even vaguely alludes to your claim.
I have made it abundantly clear, frequently, that it is the regime governing Israel which I despise vis a vis its treatment of the Palestinians. They happen to be Jews; they might just as well be Christian or Muslim or whatever and I would still despise them for their activities.
If you want to translate that into anti-Semitism be my guest, but you'd be as wrong as those apologists of the Israeli government who read anti-Semitism into any criticism of Israel. Their problem, not mine.

 

I guess it's just unfortunate that you've tied yourself so closely to so many intellectually dishonest arguments. Not really much there....is there.

 

You said that Israel must have a guarantee of security. I'd like to know just how you propose that happens.

 

Well put, snake, but it's unlikely that even tones can put the brake on virulent antisemitosis . It needs the vaccine of applied law.

 

Are you completely serious? How do any international security agreements happen?

 

NeoZionist terrorist.......seems like I've heard something remarkably like that somewhere before. Hmmm....lets see if we can recall........

[video=youtube;tmzyHuJAzfY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmzyHuJAzfY[/video]

 

An agreement is not a guarantee by any stretch. Israel agreed, when it became signatory to the UN Charter, to abide by its rules, laws and regulations. It has serially ignored them for decades. And, lest you forget, it is Israel's illegal occupation and 'settling' of Palestinian territory which is at the root of the problems of Israel/Palestine.
I suggest that before you make demands of others you insist that Israel abides by her legal obligations. Fair enough?

 

Pardon the interjection, but didn't the UN propose how that would happen after the Six Day War, i.e., the framework in UNSCR 242?

 

It's way more than apparent that any kind of agreement with Israel would be completely unacceptable for people like you.

 

Indeed, and Israel has refused to relinquish its occupation and withdraw, which was one of the stipulations of 242.