What are you talking about? I NEVER said anything about Wealth or Family Lineage!!! All I said was you needed another Mason to sponsor you to have any real chance of being accepted or you need to have something the Mason's want...that being that they tend to draft members to fill a particular need of the group. Now...if you are some kid working as a Lettuce Technician at McDonald's your chances are EXTREMELY LOW you will be accepted in. If you happen to be a guy who is well known in the community and has done charitable work before or perhaps a particular Mason Lodge does not have a Lawyer Member or does not have an actual Mason Worker Member....since Masons tend to give work to each other and among one another a well rounded Lodge will have all sorts of Masons covering all forms of Jobs. AboveAlpha
That is not true. I've personally had people approach me who I've never met before and inquired about becoming a Freemason. We talk to them to learn more about them and if they are still interested, give them a petition to apply for membership in the fraternity. No one is ever pressured to join the fraternity; as KSigMason aptly put it, one must join on their own free will and accord. We have people from all walks of life in my lodge and when you walk into a Masonic lodge, all are of equal stature regardless of profession or social status. That was one of the things which I find so attractive about freemasonry.
In regards to the bolded, we don't draft members nor do we base their acceptance on some kind of need. Not really. Yeah, that's not how it works, but thanks for trying.
You keep posting this and I am NOT disagreeing. What I keep saying is that it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY....that a person who does not have at least ONE Free Mason as a sponsor....will be allowed to become a member....and if they are allowed in....99 out of 100 times if they do not have a sponsor who is a Free Mason....they are allowed in because the Masons feel that person will ADD something to the Lodge as Mason's VERY MUCH SO...do business with and between each other. I do not believe you could site an example of some Minimum Wage McDee's Lettuce Technician....being allowed in just because they applied without a sponsor....it just DOES NOT HAPPEN!!! I am NOT knocking the Free Masons as I think it is perfectly normal for such a Club to only admit those they feel can be useful or make a contribution towards their agenda...that agenda being making guy's like STEVE GUTTENBERG...become a Hollywood Movie Star!!! LOL!!! WE DO!!! WE DOOOO!!! AboveAlpha
I have a good friend who has obtained a 33 Degree Freemason Level. I know a GREAT DEAL....about what the Freemason Charter if you will excuse the word....details out and exactly WHAT the Freemasons are about...which I find to be fine. After all....someone has to keep E.T. under wraps! LOL!! WE DO!! WE DOOO!!! AboveAlpha
Actually I believe it say's that Masons are NOT to use Business issues and aspects to interfere with Mason activities and programs. But as I keep saying...there is what one would think...and then there is REALITY. Be HONEST.....do you remember ever having a new member who worked a Minimum Wage Job? AboveAlpha
I am sorry I am not clear on your post. Are you saying YOU are working a Minimum Wage Job? Or are you saying you know of such a person who was allowed to become a Freemason without the help of any Freemason sponsor? AboveAlpha
That's exactly what I am saying. Well, two Brothers sign a petition, but that is it. In the literal context, I came in without any sponsor. I was truly an off-the-street interest.
OK...questions. Did you have a higher paying job before? Do these two sponsors know you before they signed? AboveAlpha
I did, but when I applied I was working at a temp clerk for the Post Office. They knew my current job only. They did know I was a veteran.
They knew I was in the military, and I was an All Source Intelligence Analyst (various positions) and UAV Operator-Instructor (and Mission Commander).
Well....there you go. I have nothing against the Masons and I have even been encouraged to join...but I simply do not have the time. But I SERIOUSLY DOUBT....that if they were unaware of your former...JOB....and if you were not backed by a few Masons....and if you were some kid working as a French Fry Tech at Burger Boy.....you are NOT getting in. AboveAlpha
Then how do you explain my Senior Deacon? He works at a gas station and has for some time. One's job does not have an affect on whether they will be admitted or not. As Worshipful Master of my Lodge I know we don't stop people from joining simply because they don't have the right job or that they have something we want.
I never said JOB alone is a reason why or why not a member is picked. I said JOB has something to do with it and family as well....but an applicant having a Mason as a SPONSOR is what is going to get a person in. Now...what sponsors did your Sr. Deacon have? AboveAlpha
Do the Masons release any records they might have of a former member who is now dead to a family member searching their geneolgy? I have located my grandfather's grave and know when he was born and died but the Church records say nothing of who his father was or where he was born. However, there is a Masonic seal on his gravestone. I do realize they're not called a SECRET society for nothing, but it's been 86 years and I am a close descendant. Just asking though.
In the Mason's defense it must be remembered they exist purportedly to serve the community. If you are just establishing yourself in your area/life they have a good reason to tell you to do so and then return later. Membership in Freemasonry should involve duty more than advantage. And one of their stricter rules I have heard is that they will consider no one who has not formally asked to join. They don't draft or obligate people, in other words.
I was NOT disparaging the Freemasons....I was simply talking about REALITIES. It is a far and few between event when a 20 something who might be working at Quickie Mart or Burger Barn for minimum wage and has no family connection to the Mason's and has no Mason sponsors and has no Military record or any history of helping in the community....to be selected to be a Mason if this person was to attempt to join. Now...I really don't see a problem with a group such as the Masons having a specific criteria which determines who will or will not be selected as a member. I was simply trying to point out that if a person does not have any connections or Mason fronds or sponsors and has very little to offer the Masons as far as becoming a member....it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY IN THE EXTREME....such a person will be allowed to join. AboveAlpha
It really doesn't though. Except you don't have a sponsor. Two guys sign the petition but that is not a sponsor. I don't know. I was in Iraq when he was first initiated. The fact is though that having a sponsor doesn't matter as to whether or not one is allowed in. There is no public database of former members. Each Grand Lodge has its own records and you could approach them to see if you had any Masons in your past. We're really not as secret as everyone thinks. We do value privacy as anyone does. Not really. We ask one's occupation, but we never ask their annual income. But I can name many examples that contradict this.
The Freemasons have a criteria. It is not like just anyone that applies will be definitively made a member just because they apply. And is anything...the Masons seem to be very picky when choosing a member compared to other Orgs. AboveAlpha
It is based upon whether a applicant for membership is considered by the Freemasons to be a person of..."USE"...or if such a person would be considered a..."BENEFIT"....to the Freemasons. There is NOTHING wrong with that. Now regardless of the fact that it does not detail in the Mason's charter any criteria specific to a persons JOB or INCOME and it doesn't say a person must have FAMILY MEMBERS who were or are Masons....the FACTS ARE...a VERY HIGH PERCENTAGE of Freemasons who are current members have an ABOVE NATIONAL AVERAGE INCOME LEVEL.....have had in the past or current FAMILY MEMBERS WHO WERE OR ARE MASONS....or WERE APPROACHED BY FREEMASONS WHO REQUESTED THEY APPLY TO BECOME A FREEMASON. Those are the FACTS. There is nothing wrong with those facts but with them come certain realities. Sure....a person does not need to make a certain amount of money or have a specific job or have family members who were or are members and a person does not even need a Freemason as a sponsor to APPLY TO BECOME A MEMBER OF THE FREEMASONS. Buy hey....I can go put in an application to NASA.....but that doesn't mean they will make me an ASTRONAUT. AboveAlpha
And where do you draw these statistics from? If they are facts you should be able to supply your source for this information. Apples and oranges.
