Outside of the box Muslims

It's far more a Judean Christian cultural thing going on there, than a buddhistic/muslim thing.
So like... wtf you on about?

 

Demonizing an enemy is very common and probebly natural too, I never had that thou, I dont hate my enemies but it doesnt make them any less of enemies to me, to Europeans the Muslims are not enemies but that doesnt change the economic and dempgraphic (in the long run) problems they face, so I agree with you hating Muslims is wrong but its because I belive hate in any case is a useless feeling, to be weary of the immgrant flood is IMO a very logical conclusion, to stop it is not racist. but if Europeans will start to deport them than it will be an intresting issue, will Europe defy UN treaties herself ?

 

What's a Judean Christian cultural thing ?

 

if you're not aware with what the jewish / christian western culture is, than you're beyond my help.

 

Yes they do

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/dispatches/2015/01/22/yes-the-bible-does-say-to-kill-infidels/

And I don't particularly like lots of people, lots of them are conservatives

That's a reason nobody should ever be allowed to say anything good about them?

 

LOL @ atheist blog

Bunch of crap

 

That is truly the most backhanded compliment I've ever heard, congratulations

 

Ah, I see you have adopted the same erudite argumentative skills and rapier wit that most conservatives use when confronted with the real facts of a situation. The quotes in question were from the Bible, not that blog. Are you saying that the blogger's being atheists prevents them from quoting the True Word of God, now? Like the Devil makes the words different?

Could it be...... SATAN?

 

You have beautiful eyes. Especially the big one!

 

LOL @ bad atheist humour


Ever heard of "Thou shall not kill"?

Hint: You won't find it in the Koran

 

Yeah.. the bible says that, while it also demands you to kill gays. Leviticus 20:13. While the God killed all the innocent babies of ancient Egypt at some point, so the Jews could commit a genocide to the land of the Canaans. We're talking about the massacre of men, women, pregnant women, children, babies, the elderly. And look at the Jews go today in that land of Canaan...

That commandment is a joke. Even for the bible.

 

its probably more accurate to say an anglo saxon culture than a judeo christian. Even though increasing numbers do not have anglo saxon heritage. And while you might say the judeo christian traditions have come via that route, the differences within judeo christian cultures are pretty significant.

 

All of these issues are manifest in any country which is politically unstable, and while many people would prefer it not to be true, even under evil dictators like saddam, Gaddafi, assad, women and children are safer than in the chaos that comes after.

Bangladesh and pakistan are both muslim countries and both have had women presidents/prime ministers. Its not the position of women, but the position of poor women, that is most problematic, and this is yhe case evetywhere. The greater the poverty, the greater the inequality, the more likely women and girls are to be victims of all forms of human rights abuses.

the version of islam that has become dominant in south asia is influenced both by other aspects of south asian culture ( not islamic in origin) and a version of islam that has come via the gulf states, which in turn was influenced by pre islamic traditions. As another poster has said, the influence of colonialism has also fed into this.

but regardless, a lot of it comes down to the economic reasons, as you say, mixed with certain other factorscwhich are not inherent to islam, but are often manifest in islamic societies.

 

have known muslims from over 40 different countries and never met one who does any of those things.

 

Very few people here refer to australia as a christian nation. We are more likely to be referred to as a sporting nation .... which is also pretty inaccurate .

 

are you sure about that?

and if not killing is so much a part of christianity, how does that explain our history?



Abd if it is so intrinsic to christianity, why have christians killed so many people, I

 

All fair enough........

One good turn deserves another and I'd like to share some things with you as well, except I'd actually like for you to share them with as many people as you know in order to break down all of these stereotypes that are flying around.

But before I do that, I'd like to explain some things.....

First, I am an American citizen born & raised here in the great state of NJ where I lived a stones throw away from one of, if not the largest concentration's of Muslims in our country.

I am not a practicing Muslim, and I am not 100% Arab but I am "partially" Arabic, complete with relatives in Morocco. (very long story)

I served in the military many years ago, I Iove this country, I'm glad I was born here, and I consider myself a patriot.

I've spent a great deal of time in the Middle East on both business trips, and for personal vacations, and I've come to the know the people, the land, the culture, and the way of life over there very well.

I am a card carrying Democrat but I'm not a far-left extremist, and I've always been open to republican candidates & republican ideas.

Now maybe you have a better picture of who your conversing with.

I'll address the information you provided me with in a moment but right now I'd like to tell you what "I know", not what "I've heard" on a right or left leaning cable news networks, or right or left leaning radio talk shows, or right or left leaning website that's hosted on a $20.00 dollar a month server that was put together by a 17 year old somewhere in Nebraska.........in a basement.

I.........know..........Arabs............... ...

I know: what they think, how they live, what concerns them, what their fears are, what their hopes & dreams are, what keeps them up at night, what motivates them to get up in the morning, what drives them, what their politics are, what they expect from their political & religious leaders, what they want for their kids, what they want for their futures, how divided they are in terms of their interpretation of the Quran, how divided they are in terms of certain prominent Clerics & Imam's, how divided they are about groups like Hamas, Al Qaeda, and ISIS, and everything else in-between.

Arabs without question are the most divided group of people on this planet today, I'll give you that all day long.

Arabs are dealing with a text (the Quran) that on the one hand they fiercely love & admire, and on the other hand they are fiercely divided over how to interpret, I'll give you that all day long.

Arabs are unfortunately linked to individuals who have a lust for killing for profit who unfortunately have hijacked their Quran & Islam in the name to commit all of the heinous acts that they do...................but here is where it gets critical....................these suicidal maniacs themselves are also all over the place regarding everything I'm talking about.

You have terrorists who are what we would call the "true believers".

They believe that all non-believers (Kafir's) need to die, and then you have the idiots that are just in it for the spoils of war, and then you have the political types that are in it for power & control of oil rich regions, and then you have the thrill seekers with empty lives that join for the adrenaline rush, and then you have the 18 year old goat farmers that are completely confused, and just get caught up in bad situations only to regret everything they have done and try to escape the clutches of these groups later on, and then you have the young men that are literally snatched off the streets, and are forced to join these groups in order to keep their families alive, and then you have the young children that are indoctrinated into all of this at ages as young as 5 who are taught to hate the west and they are groomed to kill.

Lastly you have the young men who have watched their entire family be blown to bits (just for us to get one or two bad operatives) by our drones, and have decide to take revenge.

Dutch, please tell me how you would feel if this happened your your little brother or new born baby:



Please tell me how you would feel if you came home to find your mother and two you siblings in this condition.



Dutch...........you absolutely have no idea what's going on in the ME, you absolutely know nothing about Islam, you absolutely know nothing about Arabs or Muslims, you absolutely don't know the hell they're going through, what they're losing or how they're reacting to all of it. (and I say all of that respectfully)

I come in here night after night, and read thread after thread of people going on & on about how evil Islam is, and how perverted & backwards Muslims are, and how they all deserve all of the hell that they're going through, and how the best thing would be to just exterminate all of them because none of them have any redeeming qualities.

I read all of this from people who cite reference's that absolutely make no sense where all of the information is wrong, and any time there is an attempt to correct any of you guys, its all dismissed as bull-chit or Muslim propaganda designed to make them look good.

You all try to put Muslims in a box, color them all one shade of color and then attempt to convince the rest of us that this is what they are because of A, B, C, and all of it is just flat out nonsense.

You can no more put Muslims in one category than you could any group into one category, and it's horrifically, horrifically, horrifically unfair to use one or a few examples where bad things have happened to demonize the entire group.

More Muslims die at the hands of twisted people that call themselves true followers of Islam more than any other group.

More people get killed & die in this country, and in every other country at the hands of non-Muslims & Arabs than Muslims everyday, everywhere, yet Muslims are the new bogymen that we're all supposed to be afraid of.

Islam is extremely complicated to interpret & understand, I'll give you that all day long, and as a result sadly it is manipulated by evil people, and used as an excuse to commit horrible crimes, I'll give you that all day long.

What your not aware of however are all of the Imam's, Cleric's, and Sheik's all over the world that have been convening on this subject in mass conferences who have made solemn vows to come together to restructure the way the faith is taught to cut down on all of this confusion.

There are millions of confused (not so much evil) Arabs out there, I'll give you that all day long.

These are my people Dutch, just as Italians, Germans, Blacks, Irish, Scottish, Greek's, and Native American Indian's are also all my people, so I am inextricably tied to them, and I love all of them very much. These are all the nationalities that I am made up of.

Arabs/Muslims have treated me very well all of my life, and I've seen nothing buy beauty from all of these people, so I can't possibly be where you are on this. (fair enough)

I ask of you to open your heart & your eyes here a little bit, and not be so judgmental, I also ask of you to soften your position on this just enough to try to see this from another perspective or point of view.

With all of that said, let me show you what these people are made of, and what they've contributed to the world:

Please click on these links & videos and read & look through them when you have time. (please don't dismiss them as propaganda)

http://www.adc.org/2002/09/arab-contributions-to-civilization/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_contributions_to_Medie val_Europe

http://www.canadianarabcommunity.com/contributionstocivilization.ph p

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-considine/overcoming-historical-amnesia_b_4135868.html

http://www.alhewar.org/ArabCivilization.htm

[video=youtube;mXuSNdlJOCw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXuSNdlJOCw[/video]

Whenever you have an hour to kill, and it's really good, you'll learn a lot of really cool things.

[video=youtube;J1btMSGeZfA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1btMSGeZfA[/video]

 

I am glad to see that you are fair & balanced on this issue.

I must admit that the refugee problem (in terms of the numbers) is difficult to get control of, and I also must admit that I have no answers as to how it can be solved.

I absolutely do not buy into all of the stories coming out of Europe about roving gangs of hundreds of Muslims that have taken to the streets terrorizing everyone or raping thousands of women every night. (this is complete BS & nonsense)

I realize the situation is tense, and I also realize that there are some bad apples in the bunch making life miserable for everybody, but not to the extent that we're seeing on certain websites or newsfeeds.

I also agree that the best option would be for all nations to genuinely come together without political or economic agendas that would benefit only them, and just crush all of these terrorists groups once & for all without killing innocents which only inspires future terrorist organizations.

If the US, and all of here ally's in Europe all decide to genuinely just "do the right thing" this entire problem could probably could be sorted out in less than a year.

The bloodshed would end, the mass exodus of people leaving their homes would end, and the region would eventually recalibrate & rebuild.

Sadly I do not see any of this happening because there are too many parties vying for power, money & control, instead of putting peoples lives first.

 

It's not even that anymore. Less than 40% of Australians have British heritage.

 

We'd like to keep it that way. Seeing what is going on with the Great Muslim Invasion of Europe is motivation enough.

 

I will do more research on the matter, but you probably have better informal access to the information.

Regarding your disgust with Forum responses, you need to take into account that thought oriented people have actually trained themselves to not be swayed by emotional appeals, and discussion boards like this attract quite a few of them. IMO you are feeling oriented, and expecting responses based on how you would respond.

There is definitely a problem with Islam. India and Bangladesh, etc also have Muslims, and many other countries in the world do as well. I am remembering at least two large scale murders at schools or colleges in Africa by Muslims over the last year. There may not be daily murders, but incidents seem to be happening at least monthly, with a goal of exterminating as many people without warning as possible. IMO the behaviors smack of genocide and they are occurring all over the planet, almost wherever Muslims have established themselves.

Additionally, the kidnapping and forced "marriages," enslavement, or sexual slavery of hundreds of young non-Muslim girls, including approximately 250 African schoolgirls in one fell swoop, and forcing them to become Muslim are as outrageous today as the enslavement Muslims had practiced against black Africa for centuries before this. Islam appears to have done nothing to bring Islamic scripture up to date to help end these practices; instead, male lust and any actions taken to indulge it appear to be legitimized by Islamic teachings.

Defacing a desired female by acid because she will not accept a suitor is psychologically primitive behavior that does not appear correctable by Islam. Christian Europe went through a period of learning on this during the Middle Ages with its practice of "courtly love," which put forward the idea of knights being "champions" of their live objects even though they were completely Platonic and often married to someone else.

Perhaps Muslims, especially Arab Muslims, are less able to deal with their sexual frustrations because of their historic access to female slaves from black Africa? Maybe it is time for them to learn how to sublimate these feelings in order to develop more control and also generate the energy to further improve their civilizations. Perhaps if they learn to better control their lustful urges and anger over these they will also learn to control their violence toward each other.

 

That's great. But if they won't condemn Mohammad for saying to kill gays, then they are just fooling the ignorant Infidels. Will they condemn Mohammad for saying to kill gays?

 

What great muslim invasion of europe? Do you mean people fleeing wars that have come about due to western interventions in their region in recent years (you can basically blame your invasion of iraq for the genesis of Isis, and indiscriminate funding of anti assad forces by both the west and the gulf states has fed them).

In the us you need not worry about being invaded by muslim hordes fleeing conflict. Nothing like thousands of kilometres of ocean to protect you. Most muslims coming to the US are educated professional people. As I said, more likely your life will be saved by a muslim than you will be killed by one.

- - - Updated - - -

So you would no doubt argue that instead of referring to the bible, christians should condemn it for what is in it.

 

It does not matter that there are peaceful Muslims (Duh) when each individual will interpret Islam in whatever way they wish. The issue is in what Islam states, and that there are a very many places where such interpretations can, and do lead to extreme violence and hatred. Because of this very basic fact it cannot be trusted in a peace loving society intent on freedom of it's people. If someone decides to be Islamic, accept the realities that come with your choice....you will be singled out as a danger and in many ways not welcomed into that peaceful society due to distrust.

Just think hard and figure out if you belief in Allah is worth the cost....I cannot see how it could be.

 

What a person is 'taught' and what he chooses to do with those teachings are two distinct issues. Christians are also taught to do unpleasant things to unbelievers; some do and some don't.