Outside of the box Muslims

Islam as taught by Mohammed in Medina teaches its followers to look down on non-Muslims and to rule over them, require them to pay a special tax, and in some cases rape or kill them with little or no provocation other than to spread Islam further by impregnating non-Islamics or to strengthen Islam. The sects vary on this--there are more than 70 of them--but the scriptures are written in such a manner that the least educated and most criminally minded Muslims will be the most likely to follow Mohammed's teachings considering these matters, which are very violent. In Medina, Mohammed was a warlord who decimated whole populations even if they did not oppose him, and his teachings reflect this. He also supported rape of married female captives and slaves, and using female servants as sex objects, which today is often reflected in how hired help from other countries are treated in Saudi Arabia.

IMO the violent jihadist mystique is used quite consciously by much of the Muslim leadership in a manipulative way that keeps non-Muslim populations on edge and politically controllable even where Muslims are a small minority. It is an abusive tactic designed to eventually allow political and religious takeover by Islam. In the US, CAIR, an organization with terrorist connections, has chosen to speak for Muslims and has an aggressive agenda of litigation for minor or even imaginary affronts against Muslims and Islam, which costly and often unwarranted litigation is another form of this abusive behavior. One soon learns that Muslims are easily insulted, affronted, bothered, or upset by anything non-Islamic, including food and humor, and that payback up to and including extermination may be the result to those that dare to provoke Muslims.

The vast majority of Muslims do not actively participate in the violence of their criminal element, but frequently fail to fully disavow the behaviors because Mohammed approved them. They are passive aggressive participants, therefore, in any gains made by this violence, which surfaces on a regular basis worldwide and in recent years has resulted in thousands of deaths of innocent people, often including Muslims of differing sects.

 

No, it is a secular nation. Like other western nations it has a judeo christian heritage, which is NOT the same as being a christian/jewish nation.

Unlike nations that define themselves according to the dominant religion (which would also exclude Judaism btw) we aim to be inclusive, despite the rhetoric of a vocal minority.

 

oh, you mean its basically the same as any other Abrahamic religion then. And similar to a few others as well.

Fortunately most believers don't place their religion above their humanity in their day to day lives, but those who do are not excusively muslim.

 

Muhammed was a caravan operator and merchant... and the Jizya was only paid by able bodied men to exempt them from defending the community.. The Jizya was LESS tax than Muslims paid because they didn't want money to be the reason for conversion.

 

Interestingly enough, these actions are most likely the very thing that has contributed to the rise of extremism.

threats of violence, both real and perceived, are the very thing that is most likely to drive people to support strongman tactics. Its why trump is so popular in america right now. He is riding on the perceived threat of islam and milking it for everytjing its worth.

 

I think the thing that gets me about all this islamophobia emanating from america is that the actual threat of islam is much less there than virtually anywhere else.

you are more under threat from other road users, accidental discharge of firearms, and of course other disaffected americans with anger management issues.

in fact, with the high numbers of muslims in the medical profession, you are more likely to have your life saved by a muslim than to be killed by one.

 

Understood............

Do me a favor brother..........

Please show me in any of the pictures that I posted in post's #98 & #99 in this thread where you see everything your talking about, and we'll discuss it further.

Mind you these are pictures of Muslims in Iraq, Syria, Dubai, and Saudi Arabia, not every Muslim country because the forum rules will only allow me to post so many pictures within one post......but please know that I could if I had the space.

I'll be patiently waiting.......

Oh but wait, before you get back to me I'd like to speak to some of the things you mentioned.

First: There are no bombings or suicide bombings going off all over the world everyday, every week or every month, so your being a bit disingenuous here and I expect for you to be a bit more accurate here with your accusations because I know you to be more intelligent than this.

Yes there are terrorist activities carried out by terrorists outside of the ME here & there which would accumulate to roughly one to two events per year (on a large scale) but not to the gravity to which you suggest. (so be fair)

Second: Acid attacks against women are much more prevalent in places like India & Bangladesh more than anywhere else in the world, with very few happening in Muslim countries. So once again..........knock it off, and be fair here.

And by the way these acid attacks usually come in the form of vengeance from men either being sexually spurned from women, or punishment for not paying debts, and they have nothing to do with religion or religious connotation attached to them.

Acid throwing

Today, acid attacks are reported in many parts of the world. Since the 1990s, Bangladesh has been reporting the highest number of attacks and highest incidence rates for women,[11][12] with 3,512 Bangladeshi people acid attacked between 1999 and 2013.[13] Although acid attacks occur all over the world, including in Europe and the United States, this type of violence is mainly concentrated in South Asia.[14][15]

Read the rest here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_throwing

Third: random shootings of innocent Jews (while wrong) are an answer to this happening to Palestinian children from Jews.









While Jews are on the other side safely protected by YOUR MONEY living like this:





Yeah....................you "might" wanna leave that one alone bro.

Fourth: Do these women from Iraq look oppressed or forced to do anything they don't want to do to you?

View attachment 41587

Do these women from Syria look oppressed or forced to do anything they don't want to do to you?

View attachment 41588

There are 2 billion freaking Muslims living on this planet..........................

When are you people going to get it through your insanely THICK skulls that a few thousand or even a few million lunatics that call themselves terrorist's or Muslims in fact - do not - represent 1.6 to 18 billion "real" Muslims?

When in the hell are any of you people ever going to get it through your insanely "THICK" skulls that not all Muslims pray, live, or interpret the Quran the same way?

When in the hell are all of you people going to get it through your insanely "THICK" skulls that not every Arab on the planet that comes from the Middle East is necessarily a Muslim, and that not all or even close to all Muslims are evil people?

Check out the pictures in posts' 98 & 99.........

Good Night buddy.................

 

I actually have this same article saved in my favorites, and my favorite part's of the article are these paragraphs.

"…you can never explain a variable phenomenon with a fixed cause. So, if you are asserting that Islam is inherently violent and intolerant—“the mother lode of bad ideas”—then, since Islam has been around for fourteen centuries, we should have seen fourteen centuries of this behavior.

Citing research by Zachary Karabell, Zakaria argues that there simply hasn’t been fourteen centuries of extremist violence and intolerance in Islam. In fact, Islam has shown itself to be more peaceful and tolerant at times than Christianity over the same period. Ergo, Islam cannot be the reason why there is a problem with Islamic extremism, and there is something deeply mistaken in the views of critics who say otherwise"

"The connection between Islam and violence is unsurprisingly complex, and a fuller explanation of the problem needs to reference other things, including individual psychologies, an established subculture of violence within the Muslim world, and the political and socioeconomic realities that some Muslims live within.

In addition to these other causal factors, it should also be recognized that there is considerable praiseworthy moral content in the Koran, and that the vast majority of Muslims are far removed from those who would execute French cartoonists on the streets of Paris."

"Productive dialogue concerning Islamic extremism must focus on educating and assisting those who travel upon it."


Obviously I don't agree with all of it, but I credit him with at least being honest enough to make the admissions he did that I pasted above.

Let me try this with you.

I created a thread earlier today about a young Muslim woman who was riding on a New Jersey Path train along with some friends that were on their way home from college classes.

These young Muslim women (all under 25 years old) were sitting on the train minding their business when they were verbally assaulted by a much older individual who used many racial slurs, and extremely filthy, violent language towards them.

I don't personally know you (of course) but I'm willing to bet my life that you would never do anything like that.

I'm also willing to bet my life that if you were on that train and witnessed it, you would have become upset by what you saw.

I'm leaving this there, I know where you stand with religion, Islam & Muslims, and you know where I stand.

I'm willing to just accept the fact that you have enough moral decency to never behave the way the man on the train behaved, and I won't ask you for more than that.

 

Nah.......I pass.......

I gave you all of this information, and right below each sect is a brief explanation of what they believe.

For me to go any deeper by separating which sect that "might be" prone to violence or indoctrination into terrorist groups is not fair to me.

Given enough time and dialog with all of my Arab contacts I could make a comprehensive list of which sects have shown predispositions to violence in the past - but that would take an insurmountable amount of work on my part that would surely be met with your skepticism.

This exercise was meant to show you that you can't pigeon-hold all Muslims into one category or one sect.

What I can tell you with 100% certainty is that 1.6 to 1.8 billion Muslims are not violent, don't partake in terrorists activities, or support terrorism.......regardless of what sect they belong to.

It's ok Merwen, I know how you feel about all of this, and it's really ok.

We are where we are with all of this but we can still be civil towards each other, we're just on opposite sides of a field with a chain-link fence running between us...............

 

There are more Buddhists in Australia than Jews,, by a long shot. Also more Muslims.

 

More Australians attend the footy and other sporting events on the weekend than attend church services.

 

You can (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) and moan about it tell you choke on your tounge but he never said all. What he said was that it was Muslims doing things like throwing gays off buildings, in masse. He is correct. Muslims are doing things like that in masse. Not all Muslims mind you, but wether or not they are extremists or a small minority or even just 3 guys out of 10 billion. They are still Muslims.

I said I PERSONALLY have not seen it and then I said I am sure there are a few racists on this forum. My argument was that your bull(*)(*)(*)(*) idea that nearly ever single person on this thread is an evil Muslim hating ignorant racist is utterly retarded and it is proof of just how racist YOU are. By taking these few people and using thier actions to justify branding an entire people mans you are doing EXACTLY what you are accusing all of us of doing. You think looking at a few examples of bad Muslims and branding all Muslims based on thier actions is bad, then why would you turn around and do it to someone else? It doesn't make sense.

But I do see your point. There is a legitimate amount of people on here who do act in the manner you describe. They are wrong. But so are you for trying to generalize an entire group of people (the very thing you are fighting against) based on the words and actions of a small few. I think that you are right in your desire to want to enlighten people on this issue and fight against this ignorance, but I also think you need to tone it way the (*)(*)(*)(*) down. And you should probably change that "95% of all of you are ignorant racists". Cause that's just going to generate a lot more hate for you and your cause.

 

Australia is not a Jewish nation and the topic of this thread is Muslims for Gays, all 6 of them in Australia.

 

Very nice, you proved your worth in demagogy, no not all followers of Islam throw gay ppl from rooftops but one will get severly beaten and/or arrested if he wears makeup walking the streets of Cairo, Amman, Beirut and Im not even talking about Iran and Iraq.

Why of all topics you picked this one to prove Muslims are just as OK as any other ppl - I dont know.

 

and frequently get beaten if one wears a hijab in a Western city. I am unsure why you have such a problem with this.

http://76crimes.com/100s-die-in-homophobic-anti-gay-attacks-statistics-updates/

and you must have noticed on this forum the number of people who espouse hatred of gays as well as, as I told you before the neo cons and Christian right in the US have been going to Africa trying to get the people there to outlaw/give the death penalty for people being gay.

Being gay has only been legal in England since 68 and I found out recently not in Scotland until 1980 and in both of those places the age of consent for gay sex was higher than for heterosexuals. This did not change until 2001 I think falling in line with the EU. The new far right is not less condemning of gays. They were at the beginning but as they get more support all the old hates are resurfacing. Gays remain a threatened group in Western society and if we move way to the right, which is at the current time a very real possibility, then they likely will find themselves again under persecution.

and then we take what seems to be the case that where Gays are worst treated is where they suffered British colonisation - Iran for instance still gives the same punishment as the British did - death by hanging.

That gay Muslims in Australia are beginning to make a public stand is the very way that Gays in the west began to change public opinion so that they were no longer subject to hard labour or aversion therapy for being who they are. Hence to use your language Muslims indeed are 'just as OK as other people' in this respect. Australian Muslim gays like those in the West before them are asserting their right to be gay and proud of who they are.

 

hmmm ... Bangladesh is a muslim country. While it is certainly true that women being the victims of sexual assault occurs in many places, reported figures are NOT an indication that it occurs less frequently in muslim countries. Sexual assaults certainly do occur, and many do go unreported ... however it is also true that south asian culture is particularly problematic for women, and hindu dalit and lower caste women are usually worse off than their poor muslim sisters.

Women in ALL traditional societies often do not enjoy the rights and freedoms that we have come to expect in the west, and certainly in Iraq things were better under Saddam than they have been since the invasion. The position of women in Syria has also gone backwards ... not because of Islam specifically, but because that iscwhat happensvin conflict zones.

re acid throwing - bangladesh is a muslim country, although I agree it is also generally more prevalent in south asia, as well as among the south asian diaspora. It is also common in pakistan, and with the rise of fundamentalism these attacks are increasing.

what is really needed is not a defenxe of islam so much as understanding what is driving the increase in fundamentalist ideology ... which is not the same as terrorism, as any educated person would know.

 

You keep asking me to tone it down when I already have, and I'm not the one who has several words blocked out by asterisk's because I can't control myself enough to stop cursing.

Once again, and you call me angry & out of control...............? (dude chill out)

Final reply from me on this, promise.

I'm not going into what Dutch said or didn't say, or meant or didn't mean anymore with you because obviously the disconnect between how I interpret his words, and how you interpret them are as wide as the grand canyon. (so lets leave it alone like two gentlemen)

I'm not as mad at you as you are with me however because I know how meanings get lost, and misconstrued when you write things over the internet.

People get twisted daily at my job over emails they take completely wrong, and I am beyond positive that if you and I, and Dutch were at a bar discussing all of this over a few cold ones their wouldn't be any confusion what-so ever.

That said................

I'll give you this much, I do tend to let my passion over these issues get away from me from time to time, and I do use much higher percentages when I talk about who does or who doesn't like Muslims in this forum. (I'll give you that)

As a result of our conversation I'm going to make an effort to use the words "a lot of you" or "a lot" from now on instead of saying words like "all" or "95%", fair?

But I would be remiss if I didn't leave you with this.......

You said that what I presented you with regarding a few people from one thread proved nothing, and that it still doesn't speak to the many members in this forum regarding what their opinions of Muslims are.

I did point out in that post that - that was just "one thread".

One thread from dozens, and, dozens, and dozens of threads that I, and others started that were on the topic of Muslims.

All (yes all) of these threads I'm talking about were overflowing with members in this forum that said things 1000% (yes 1000%) worse than what I showed you.

I can't possibly sit here with this laptop, and pull up every single one of those threads, and copy/paste every single one of those comments onto a word document, and them paste them in here to prove to you what I'm saying. (I'd be sitting here for months and I do have a job)

Your being incredibly disingenuous & unfair here by not just taking my word for it - trust me when I tell you that "a lot" of members in here absolutely hate Muslims. (I get no gold stars for saying that so please get off my back about it)

They don't dislike them, their not aggravated by them, their not indifferent to them, they hate them with every fiber of their being.

I started a thread in the "Member Casual Chat" section just yesterday, and already it's filling up with Muslim hate, so please don't tell me that the numbers are much lower than I think, or that I'm the one guilty of what I'm preaching.

One guy wrote in, and called Muslims "f*cking savages"...............(and once again, that's some of the nicer stuff that I see in here)

No my friend, you have no idea how bad it is in here regarding negative sentiments towards Muslims.

Another poster wrote in and told me to stop posting the comments I make because (and I'm quoting here) "Americans have already made up their minds on these animals"

You don't know me, you don't know a damn thing about me, or my past, or my experience's, or how I was raised, or how I view the world.

If you asked me politely without constantly cursing at me I'd gladly tell you, but what you do need to know is that I hate no one and that I'm not a bigot.

I simply call things as I see them, and I've been a member in here long enough to see that "a lot" of members in here have no use for Muslims, and the other half feels equally dismissive of blacks.

Now...............if that bothers you, or your sensibilities because you feel as though your not in that category - so be it, your probably not, and good for you for not being a bigot or a racist, but make no mistake friend this forum has........."a lot of them".

And me saying that doesn't automatically make me a bigot..............

Have a nice day and if you ever want to chat again I'd love to, but please knock off all of the name calling & cursing, there's no need for it.

 

All of this is 100% accurate and I never said that things like this wouldn't happen or don't happen so lets be a little fair here...............please.

A good question deserves a good answer.............

I saw this story about these gay Muslims that were involved in this gay pride event, and thought to myself:

"wow, look here, this is exactly what I'm always trying to explain to "a lot" of the members in Political Forums how not all Muslims are bloodthirsty animals hell bent on killing everybody the way "a lot of them" think.............."

"This would be a good story to post so people could see yet another facet, another side of Muslims & Muslim life because all their ever inundated with is negative images that have warped their sense of what these people are all about"


And of course.................like always................the original content and meaning of the thread has gone completely off the rails because people keep writing in talking about everything under the sun that has nothing to do with the main theme of the topic, and so now we're a thousand miles rom where we stared.

Now we're talking about terrorists throwing gays off of rooftops WHEN THAT WAS NEVER THE MAIN TOPIC OR IDEA OR POINT IN CREATING THIS THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope I've cleared things up here Gilos, have a great day.........

 

Understood and all good points......................

But respectfully, I would say to you that a majority of the reasons why acid is being thrown into these women's faces has absolutely nothing to do with Islam, religion, or the fact that Bangladesh is a predominantly Muslim country.

Rape is a huge, huge problem in places like India & Bangladeshi, ironically much more-so that any of the Gulf States in the Middle East.

I say ironically because many in here will also tell you that rape is only extreme, widespread, and perverse amongst Muslims in the Gulf states where there is no empirical data to suggest that rape is higher in those countries than anywhere else in the world.

Another huge problem of course is crushing poverty, no opportunities, crime, human trafficking, and exploitation of children.

All of these manifest themselves into situations where women are attacked (not because they are not living within Islamic religious or cultural guidelines) but because they reject the advances of men, and because they fall late in payments to loan sharks or because they change their minds about selling their children to street hustlers, and the list just goes on & on.

I'm simply trying to point out that it's economic reasons that make it so perverse, not religious reasons.

 

You are talking about the UAE, Arabia, Kuwait and Bahrain?? Rape is rare because the penalties are severe.

 

The post I made was about Muslim behavior world wide. It's unacceptable and until they join the 21st century, they will continue to feel the prejudice. Once they stop stoning women, cutting the hands off children, launching rockets out of hospitals and playgrounds to slaughter jews, slaughtering gays...and the list goes on....

Once that goes away, then they can have a rational discussion about being peaceful.

 

Yes Margot..............

But I'm also trying to push back on the idea (that many have) that rape is some systematic, automatic thing that just happens all over the Middle East in all of the Gulf states including everywhere in Northern Africa in places like Egypt, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya , and Morocco.

Rape to be sure is a problem in these places just as it is a problem all over the world, and I need for you to know how diabolically opposed I am to these animals that commit these heinous acts.

Women are absolutely the single most precious beings on this planet, and for men to take advantage and violate their trust is a crime like no other.

Many people (especially here in the states) believe that rape is a daily occurrence that happens all the time in all of these places where people just turn their heads because it's natural part of life, and that women are absolutely powerless against their attackers - when that is absolutely not the case.

Men........do.......go.........to prison over rape in these countries. (full stop)

Now, do they serve long prison sentence's, no, do many of them go free in as little a s a week or so depending on the circumstances surrounding the cases, yes, do men fear the law as much as men do here in the states or other places, no.

But lets be clear here, no mater how lax they may be, there are laws in place in these places, and it's not just some free-for-all where men get to do whatever the want.

My good friend from Syria that I see regularly once told me of how here father & brothers beat a man damn near to death for saying hello to her on the bus on the way to work..........................and he was her cousin. (it really happened, I swear)

So lets not get it twisted, women are highly regarded & respect in many cities, towns and village's, all throughout the Middle East, regardless of what Sean Hannity or Jihad Watch says.

But that's the problem Margot, many people here, and in other countries have these wild perception's of what "they think" life is like in these places, and their perceptions couldn't be further from the truth.

All I tried to do in this instance was to show that many of these acid attacks that happen in India & Bangladesh have nothing to religion, and they have no religious connotations to them.

Punishment for not following the more strict Islamic streams like Wahhabism in Saudi Arabia is not acid being thrown in a woman's face for example.

 

Ok, fine...............

So what your basically telling me then is that you absolutely refuse to accept the fact that the majority of Muslims around the world already do behave, live, think, and act as civilized people just like you & I, regardless of what evidence I may present to you.

Ok, that's cool, it's disappointing for me but I have to accept it.

Muslims aren't the turds you think they are my friend, they're not the savages you think they are, and they're not uneducated barbarians who's only purpose is to kill infidels.

They are so, so, so much more than that, and I really wish that I could somehow make you see that they are truly no different than you & I on so many levels. (but this has been my failure, not yours)

Your a good person, I know that, your life is complete, and you will continue to have a good life. (as you should)

But you handicap yourself with the negativity you hold for these people, and in the end, you rob yourself of things that would benefit you even more.

 

Indeed they are not.

Hey, may I let you in on a well kept secret, just promise to keep it to yourself?

• The total number of books translated into Arabic in the last 1,000 years is fewer than those translated into Spanish in one year.

• Greece -- with a population of fewer than 11 million -- translates five times as many books from abroad into Greek annually as the 22 Arab countries combined, with a total population of more than 300 million, translate into Arabic.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-harris/three-middle-east-myths-e_b_821537.html

Really...

 

It's the same. The government is secular. Secular actually means.. that the state is separated from religion.
/facepalm