Healthcare--a right or not?

You can do that, but it does not change the fact there is a difference.
I picked the term carefully.

 

The state asserts a claim on anything any person produces which is prior to any claim that same person has on anything she produces. The state thereby decides what each person gets to keep for his own survival and enjoyment. This entails that subjects(there really are no citizens) have no claim to anything other than that allowed to them by the state. They are free to go anywhere in the world, but subjects of the US are never free to keep whatever part of their own produce they choose to keep.

We have very well dressed, professional masters who don't physically beat us(except when they do) or kill us(except when they do) fur not dewin rhat an showin da proparespet, but subjects of the US are definitely slaves under real world definitions of the term.

 

My mommy sez I deserve free stuff, now give it to me

 

Under single-payer, are people forced by the state to provide goods and services to others w/o compensation?
Yes?
State-enforced involuntary servitude.

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Never get between a liberal and his plan to exchange free stuff for votes.

 

Rights are those things you can exercise without putting a burden on another. Entitlements are those things that require you to put a burden on someone else in order to exercise it.

Healthcare is an ENTITLEMENT unless it is provided by *yourself*. Entitlements require you to ENSLAVE someone in order to fulfill your wants and desires. That is what government does when it takes someone's money by force in order to pay for someone else. It makes a slave of the person the money is taken from.

Pay for yourself of take charity. Don't make slaves of others.

 

Anybody who thinks they have the right to the products of another man's labor can die a slow miserable death from rectal cancer for all I care

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Exactly, rights do not involve taking from one so another can gain from it

 

If you really want to get all technical about it, sure. Our very bodies can't be legally sold like cows or saint bernard pups. There are alternate definitions that do fit the description of a taxpayer, as well as people who are addicted to drugs, and many more.

I don't particularly mind involuntary servitude so much, except I know I'll be asked to accept very sketchy alternate definitions today or tomorrow by the PC police when they want to refer to Trump as Hitler, or to conservatives as pond scum.

 

I live under a single payer system in the UK; where I can change my doctor at my convenience but I always check his teeth first before committing myself.

 

Did you miss the word "cover"?

4.1 (of insurance) protect against a liability, loss, or accident involving financial consequences.
‘your contents are now covered against accidental loss or damage in transit’

As with healthcare insurance.

 

Thank you.

 

I guess you're just being a troll?
The only right in the world is might.
I asked you 2X what other right you think there is, you've ignored.

I said I don't want to live in an anarchy, where each individual uses their might to determine their right.

 

News flash. 100% of the population don't have healthy brains, whatever that is suppose to mean.

If some person says torturing babies isn't wrong and does it, now what?

 

Because 300M people telling the other person, the water that flows through my land is not your water.
That the land you think you own, isn't really your land, it's mine and I'll kill you if you don't leave it.

Where would society be without laws? If each individual can make up their own laws.

So tell me, since you still haven't, what right do you think you have?
I'll give you 1 and 1 only that I can think of, the right to life. One can defend themselves. But that will still have to be proven to someone that taking another life wasn't in cold blooded murder.

 

And yours as well. Now you got it. LOL

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Ok there buddy. Call it slavery. Hell call it pecan pie if you like. I still want it.

 

I don't care if you call it rights, entitlements or slavery or potato salad. It works all over the world. It is better care at much less money. I want it here.

 

That person has done something wrong. Is it not obvious to you that torturing babies is wrong?

By "healthy brain", I just mean not among the ~1.5% with underdeveloped uncinate fasciculus between the amygdala and orbitofrontal cortex.

 

Well if I've learned anything from this thread, is that the left and right see "rights" very differently.

Ask someone on the right about rights and they think of the Enlightenment understanding of rights; things that are inherent and don't impose any duties on anyone else to exercise them.

Ask someone on the left (and Europeans) about rights and they think of all the goods and services people need, whether it's food, water, shelter, education, healthcare, or anything else that one could argue are "necessities."

Almost the entirety of this thread have been people talking past each other, not at all getting what the other guy is saying.

 

I understand. I want your money too, I'm just not depraved enough to use guns to get it.

 

If it costs money and time and energy from another it is not a right.

 

Wrong according to who?
It is obvious to me, but that is just me and probably most others.
But the baby doesn't have a right not to be. Society deems it wrong, you and I. And we need the law to enforce the right we want for the baby.
There is no natural right for the baby not to be tortured. Then you open up the can of worms as to what is or is not torture?

Who determines that subjective answer?

 

Sure it is.

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I am. Oh....and so is every country on the planet. I am in good company. LOL

 

I would say it isn't a constitutional right. No where in the constitution does it mention healthcare nor is it included in the Bill of Rights. In fact healthcare may not even be a federal responsibility. There has been a long push in congress to make it an entitlement like social security or medicare. But I doubt Obamacare falls under an entitlement. Everyone would need to be taxed like social security and medicare and not just pay a penalty if one doesn't have health insurance. The bill of rights, the first ten amendments spell out what is a constitutional right. I think it is that simple. Now an entitlement, that would be the debate.

 

I'm sorry, I missed this before. This is where you're going wrong, right here. You already said this

so don't go back to pretending not to believe that again. Why is it wrong to take a sledge hammer to a baby, but not wrong to take a sledge hammer to a rock? The answer to that has something to do with the difference between the baby and the rock. Something is true of the baby that is not true of the rock which makes it wrong to torture the baby while the idea of torturing the rock doesn't even make sense. That property is called a right. Whatever you want to call it, whatever you want to attribute it to, without that quality as a rights bearing being, there would be nothing left of the baby to make sense of the idea that it could be wrong to do anything to it. This is because the concept denoted by "wrong", here, entails the concept denoted by "trespass" or "violation". The concept of "trespass" or "violation" entails the concept of "right". Think about anything you find immoral. You'll find that you can always answer the question of why it is wrong, but you can never pry beneath a right.

So no, something being wrong doesn't make a right. A right makes some acts wrong.

 

You're just talking about the right to a cookie you paid for. You're not talking about natural rights, like everybody else in this thread.

Them are fightin' words, pardna. You are advocating violence in order to take the property of others.

Wars have been started over far less. Are you sure you want to go down that route?

 

What property is anyone taking from you so that any person can be helped when in need of medical assistance? Of course getting health care is a right. It is a fundamental value of humanity since we were in caves. The Hippocratic Oath itself presumes that doctors will help the sick and injured. How far back must one go to prove to you that helping each other is a basic human value? If you claim that money, mere money, keeps you from supporting the saving of another person's life then you cannot be a Christian or a true member of the human experience. You are nothing but a killer, a person who cares not for any other person.