Trump fans, you got taken

any hope for a chance went out the window when he started with the birther crap. the guy showed himself to be a sleaze bag.

 

Apparently, you have very little respect for Trump. After my criticism, you offered a personal attack then chnged the subject to Obama. Obviously, you were incapable of defending Trump from my criticism.

Perhaps the truth hurt. You were "taken."

 

Trump just keeps winning, like he said he would.

 

60% is not that solid if nearly 90% of Republicans are joined by 37% of Democrats. Obviously, a lot of Republicans are not happy with the Republican President.

 

Could you actually make some predictions that we could track so Trump fans will know when they've been "taken?"

I mean, what qualifies in your mind?

 

"Free trade is pretty simple: lower all import tariffs. Anything else is a restriction on free trade, not a boon to it." I cannot agree more. His plans for a 20% tariff (notice he doesn't want to call it a tariff, it is a border tax) to finance his tax reform is insane. Because it will lower exports due to retaliation from our trading "partners" tariffs cost jobs, not protects jobs. Those sympathetic to the needs of the blue collar worker got taken in by his faux promises. He is more interested in protecting his own, his family and his fellow corporate entrepreneurs.

As I pointed out, 44% approval rating at this stage of a Presidency is pretty low although he will get a bump from his speech last night.

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I am hearing a lot of regrets for this election. It is perfectly understandable.

 

Regardless whether on views Trump as a sleazebag or not, I for one will not jump to judgement based on which party he belongs to if indeed he does belong to one. By that I mean to me Trump was an egotistical opportunist that hijacked the GOP for his own purposes. That said, he won. I really haven't seen a huge difference up to this point in how he has governed or tried to govern than other past presidents.

I think what shocks me is the animosity towards him. That quite a lot of folks just can't accept the fact he won. I didn't vote for him and didn't want him to become president. But he is president, now I shall see how he does before passing judgement without partisan rancor.

 

LOL, yeah, I reckon that is so. Do I have any regret for whom I cast my vote for? No, not in the least. I voted for Gary Johnson, which was more of a vote against Trump and Clinton than actually for Johnson. Any third party candidate would have done. I agree, there is regret out there that Trump is president. But that regret I doubt is in the form of wanting Hillary Clinton to replace him. Like my third party candidate, anyone else outside of Hillary would do nicely. I would have voted for Sanders, Biden, Webb, O'Malley against Trump, but they weren't an option. Quite a lot of independents would have also. But not for Clinton. 8 million people voted for a third party candidate, compare that to 1.5 million in 2012. That is more than enough to ensure a different winner.

They call me the numbers guy at times. I found something very interesting in the exit polls, 50% of all the voters who voted for Trump was an anti-Clinton vote. In other words, half of all Trump voters didn't care if won or not, weren't really for him to become president, just against Clinton. That is something very few people paid attention to. The dislike factor of Hillary Clinton. We paid a ton of attention to the dislike factor of Donald Trump prior to the election, but not to Hillary.

I would love to see another election without either Trump or Hillary Clinton. But in another thread I stated I am very much opposed to replacing Trump with Clinton. That is just something I can't buy. Hillary Clinton will be just as disliked by America as a whole as Trump is today. Call it polarization or whatever. Replacing one very disliked president with another very disliked president abet by different people for sure, that isn't progress.

 

When people seem to think he's going to march their children into gas chambers it becomes necessary to point out that he's not much worse than past Presidents.

 

No, not really. I just do not know how to communicate intelligently with fools who think Trump is so awful yet had no clue what villains and creeps they have been supporting for 8 years or more. I have not idea how to get through to you and it makes me sad and it has almost destroyed our nation. People who think God is meaningless are very dangerous people.

 

Sure, I have reinvested part of my portfolio in the stock market, but we all have to be very wary. As I said in the OP, never has the market invested so much on the come. Nothing has happened yet in terms of tax reform. Keep a close eye.

 

Right, and now a another member of the Trump team is in trouble, his attorney general, for crying out loud. He sure can pick 'em.

Did Attorney General Jeff Sessions break any laws? No, but possibly. Was Sessions guilty of a misleading statement to Congress? Yes. Was Sessions guilty of bad judgment? Yes. Did Sessions lack the capacity to give a completely accurate answer to the Senate confirmation hearing? Yes. For those reasons Sessions should resign because they create an atmosphere of doubt as to Sessions' ability and trustworthiness.

Here is what happened. On Feb. 28, 2016, Sessions became the first Senator to endorse Donald Trump. On March 3, Trump announced that Sessions will lead his national security advisory committee. During the week of July 18, Sergey I. Kislyak, the Russian ambassador, was among a small group of diplomats who chatted with Sessions after an event during the Republican National Convention.

On July 22, WikiLeaks posted 20,000 emails sent or received by D.N.C. officials. On July 27, during a news conference, Trump asked, “Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing” in an apparent reference to Hillary Clinton’s deleted emails.

On, Sept. 8, Sessions met privately with Kislyak in his Senate office. In early December, U.S. intelligence agencies concluded that Russia was behind the D.N.C. hacking and that it took the action in favor of Mr. Trump. Dec. 29, Obama announces sanctions against Russia for trying to influence the election. Flynn discussed sanctions with Kislyak in a phone call, according to officials who saw a transcript of the wiretapped conversation. On Dec. 30, uncharacteristically, Putin did not retaliate against the sanctions giving rise to the allegation that a deal was consummated.

On Jan. 10, 2017, at the confirmation hearing for attorney general, Senator Al Franken, a Democrat, asked Sessions what he would do if “there is any evidence that anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russian government in the course of this campaign.” Sessions replied: “I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign, and I didn’t have — did not have communications with the Russians, and I’m unable to comment on it.”

In January President Trump was given a comprehensive summary of the contents of Flynn’s phone calls with the Russian ambassador, a source told Fox News. Feb. 13, Flynn resigned.

On March 1, Sessions says in a statement, “I never met with any Russian officials to discuss issues of the campaign. I have no idea what this allegation is about. It is false.”

On March 2, Sessions admits, prior to endorsing Trump and becoming a member of his election campaign, he has never met the Russian ambassador. Conclusion, the only time he met with the ambassador was during his involvement with the Trump election campaign.

March 2, Sessions announced he is recusing himself from any investigations related to the Trump campaign.

Consequently, while it is unclear whether or not Sessions broke any laws, that possibility remains. However, clearly Sessions is guilty of improprieties and an unwillingness to be forthcoming. For these reasons he should resign. His trust with the American people has been compromised.

 

"That quite a lot of folks just can't accept the fact he won." You know, I am really tired of hearing that. I am highly critical of Trump, but hat has nothing to do with sour grapes. The election was four months ago. Get over it. No one is addressing that any more.

What critics of Trump are addressing is his woeful performance. As the leader of his party, he has failed to provide any guidance to Congress on his promises that he keeps saying he is keeping while doing nothing but wearing out pens and talking a good game. Congress is awaiting guidance on tax reform, repealing and replacing Obamacare, and infrastructure repair. What exactly does he want? He was elected four months ago, and he is saying nothing.

There is his abysmal performance in his Feb.16 press conference. He acted like a typical neighborhood bully. Most importantly it is what he says.

Contrary to everyone else on the planet he still is in denial that Russia interfered in our election. "You can talk all you want about Russia -- which was all a fabricated fake news ... It is all fake news. It is all fake news."

Then there is this gem. "The leaks are real, the news is fake."

Or, "I'm not ranting and raving, I'm just telling you you're dishonest people."

Or, "The greatest thing I could do is shoot that ship that's 30 miles offshore right out of the water. Everyone will say, "Oh, it's so great, it's so great. That's not great." How stupid is that? He's the President, for chrissakes.

Then there is this masterpiece. "The FAKE NEWS media (failing @nytimes, @NBCNews, @ABC, @CBS, @CNN) is not my enemy, it is the enemy of the American People!" After specifically mentioning prominent news outlets, Trump then says, “I didn’t say the media is the enemy—I said the ‘fake media’.”

When he stops acting like a jerk, I will respect him.

And don't tell me he is not a politician. That excuse is based on a false assumption. That only politicians are allowed to master the queen's English. Just because he isn't a politician is no excuse for paranoid narcissism and crude language. He is the President, for chrissakes.

 

That is exactly what I did.

Trump is interested in lowering the corporate tax rate. His plan to lower income taxes will benefit the rich, like himself and his family and frriends, far more than the middle class and blue collar worker. Why do you think the stock market is booming? Investors and CEO’s got one of their own in the White House. If you are not the owner or CEO of a large corporation, the stock market is your first clue that something is very wrong.

To pay for these tax cuts Trump is proposing a 20% tariff on all imported goods. That will result in a 20% price increase on imported goods to the middle class and blue collar consumer. For example, a Ford built in Mexico that costs $20,000 today will cost $4,000 more under Trump’s plan. Percentage-wise, this will have a smaller effect on the rich. That is why a tariff results in a regressive tax.

A 20% tariff will really hurt the blue collar worker who got suckered into voting for Trump. The protectionist policies Trump says is designed to protect American manufacturing jobs will do the very opposite. A 20% tariff on all imported goods will cause nations to reply in kind. This will result in less exports, thereby hurting American manufacturing.

Get it now?

 

Like I said, faced with criticism of Trump based on reality, you want to talk about Obama. That is because you are unable to defend Trump in the face of valid criticism. Like Trump, you reply with broad, meaningless generalities combined with personal attacks. That is about all you can do.

 

I don't start off on 9 Nov for Trump, I start on 20 Jan and he hasn't got his team in place yet. Is that an excuse? For some probably. But what I tire of is this constant tirades on the news about him. It took the Democrats and Obama at least 9 months to come up with Obamacare, I would imagine about the same for repeal and replace. That is with all of Obama's team in place by the end of January of 2009.

Okay, so giving the guy a chance is being a dishonest person. I would imagine a lot of folks look upon me as that. I can't help that. His press conference of 16 Feb, what about his address to congress? I suppose we have to wait and see which is the real Trump. But I assume 80% or more have already made up their mind on that. Either pro or anti Trump and each was that way probably back in January of 2016. I don't expect that to change.

What I do expect and I expect it a lot less as each day passes is for Washington to work and to work for the good of the people and not of the political party. Perhaps that is just a dream. As of today, averaging out the favorable polls on Trump he stands with a very poor 40% favorable, 52% unfavorable. But breaking that down it comes out Democrats 9% favorable, 88% unfavorable. Republicans 82% favorable, 15% unfavorable and independents, 41% favorable 47% unfavorable with 12% not sure, haven't made up their minds. I'm in that 12%.

I think the above numbers when one looks at Democrats and Republicans, that is purely partisan. Maybe for no other reason than that each is partisan. Among independents, Trump's numbers reflect where Obama was among independents for most of 2014 and 2015 until it became apparent that either Trump or Clinton would occupy the White House. Then independents approval of Obama shot up to 55% or higher the closer we got to the election.

I do think a lot of us miss Obama's steadying influence. That is except Republicans, but that is partisanship again. Anyway, good night.

 

You really had plans to buy products made in Mexico?

 

I have voted for so many presidents, I keep asking why is Trump judged days into his administration where Democrats are angry and doing all they can to block him, but we gave other presidents a year and then started to judge them?

I don't recall us judging Kennedy in a matter of days and his margin of victory was almost none. He even got accused of fixing the election. Johnson tumbled into his job and due to war got more slack. But he fell out of favor. Truman is ranking higher and higher with his Democrat pals yet when he left office he was almost hated.

Trump has promise. That he will kick some butt. And take names. And deliver. I pay no attention to the Trump haters since they act like they never voted for presidents at all in the past. Trump can reach a point where he makes me upset. But until he does, I am all in. And I was really a huge fan of several governors over Trump.

 

He ran on lowering the corporate tax rate. That's no post election surprise, that's a campaign promise. So how exactly is that a betrayal?

Also the 20% "tariff" is a border adjustment tax that was bubbling around in the House long before Trump won the Presidency. But Trump did promise to use the threat of tariffs as a negotiating tool, so again, no betrayal, and no broken promise.

Now if he proposes comprehensive immigration reform, with amnesty for 11 plus million illegals, then yeah, I would consider that a betrayal and broken promise, so be on the look out, but so far, you've failed to make your case that anyone has been "taken" or betrayed.

 

I see no reason to have to defend Trump. President Trump is doing many great things despite all the media and insane adversity he is facing from screaming mindless bats. But you do not care if we get more jobs and help so many people in need. You do not care about national security. You care that Trump exaggerated about how many Muslims were cheering on 9/11 and that he talked about grabbing a crotch. You, like the media, are part of the ills of this nation.

 

I don't understand it either. I been following politics since 1956 when I first watched the Democratic and Republican conventions on TV. I personally haven't seen Trump do anything to get up in arms about. The big difference between 1960, Nixon vs. JFK is that there wasn't the polarization or immediate need to destroy the winner by the losing party at once. But there wasn't the polarization of the two parties either back than as is the case today. Back then it was a case of being Americans first, Republicans and Democrats second.

That isn't the case today. Not it is always political party first and foremost. I have like some things Trump has done and disliked some things. But it has been that way with me for every president since and including Eisenhower.

 

I caught hell for comparing 1957 to today on a thread of that general title. I got the content e mailed to me and figured we might enjoy swapping stories. I caught hell from Democrats over mentioning actual personal stories. One would have thought I offered to execute some poor female. It truly angered Democrats. They have lost their minds. Trump derangement is a mental illness.

 

Just keep in mind this one thing. He claims he is a conservative. That means he gets to attack Trump all darned day long and twice on sundays.

 

I for one do not miss the daily TV we got from Obama. I felt assaulted by his propaganda. When the military appluded Bush so much and remained mostly silent for Obama, that sent that tingle down my leg. Chris Matthews should have got his tingle by Obama rejection.

Obama whined a lot. Some of it was just, some was nonsense.

But today the Democrats are the party of destruction. We may live like this for so long as they have any Senators at all in office. My goal is to get the Democrats out of the Senate. Then I know we can make America great again.

 

"Okay, so giving the guy a chance is being a dishonest person." I did not say that. Basically, I am saying that we should give the guy a chance when he earns that right. Review my post. Trump must earn trust. It is not bequeathed. He doesn't sound like someone who has earned that trust ... yet.

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The Republicans keep saying there is no evidence the Russian hacking influenced the election. They say they are not aware of anyone changing their vote because of the leaks. How ridiculous is that, and who said anything about changing votes? The issue is influencing the vote, not changing it.

The Wikileaks campaign began in July. For four straight months, every single day, and right up to election day the voting public was bombarded by anti-Clinton disclosures, many quite damaging. Trump, himself, even encouraged the Russians. “Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” Mr. Trump said during a news conference. “I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”

It is inconceivable that all this did not have an effect on the election.

As organized as Trump claims he is, it is perfectly conceivable that the Russian hacking campaign was in coordination with the Trump election committee.

All this brings up some important facts. Sessions himself admitted that the only time he has met with Kislyak was during the election season, never before July. Of the 26 members of the 2016 Armed Services Committee who met with Russian envoy Kislyak in 2016, Sessions was the only one.

Two more members of the Trump campaign’s national security officials also spoke with Kislyak in July, J.D. Gordon and Carter Page. Paul Manafort, the former Donald Trump campaign manager resigned over his lobbying work in Ukraine for the pro-Russian government. Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner met with Russia's ambassador to the U.S. in December.

Throughout the election campaign and beyond, Trump has lavished praises on the Russian leader. "If he says great things about me, I'm going to say great things about him." "I've already said he is very much of a leader. The man has very strong control over his country."

On the very same day that Sessions met with Kislyak, Sept. 8th, Trump appeared on the Russian propaganda network, RT.

During the four-month period in which Russia was actively interfering in our election for Trump's benefit, according to our 17 intelligence agencies, are we to believe this interaction between Trump's staff and Trump himself was innocent talk about future relationships? That is a bit too much. to swallow.

Why can't the so-called liberal media make all this more clear to the general public? Why is the media so subservient to the Trump talking points?