When The Russian Hoax Is Exposed, Should The Democrats Be Held Accountable?

You're right, you never said that what I am saying is that it is just him and DHS who are the Intelligence Community.. but I am saying that you are claiming that the USIC represents just him and DHS. You have repeatedly tried to claim that the statement represents just two agencies, and that when the head of the USIC says that they are confident that Russia meddled with our elections, he actually means something entirely different.

I understand what the title of the statement says, but the first sentence of the Director's statement clearly says that the USIC(which is 17 agencies) is confident that Russia meddled with our elections. If you cannot accept this simple fact, then no apology is needed. You're still sticking to your claim that when the Director says "USIC" he actually means just him and DHS.

 

One of the "17 Intelligence Agencies" is the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. Otherwise you would be bragging about 16 agencies. So although the DNI is the head of the intelligence community, he is also the director ODNI, in the same way the CIA director used to be the DCI and head of the intelligence community before 2005. However not every CIA report was the conclusion of "16 Intelligence agencies" even though the DCI was the head of the US intelligence community.

But since you've managed to rationalize the plain written words on those joint messages, I imagine it won't make any difference.

So again, you've made a false statement.

 

I would understand your point if the statement read the the ODNI is confident that Russia meddled with our elections, but that is not the case. It in fact says that the USIC is confident that Russia meddled with our elections. So again, it is the head of the USIC speaking on behalf of the USIC

It's no coincidence that the fact checking sources back exactly what I am saying

 

Well on this at least we can agree. It is no coincidence that the fact check (not the sources however) back you up.

 

I did not read all of these posts, but I will answer. The Dems will be held accountable in the midterms, so yes.

 

I'd like to believe you. I just don't think there are enough rational people out there. Most just want their "free" stuff.

 

NSA leaker revealed that the Russian hacking story is TRUE!!!

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017...winner-may-be-true-blue-american-patriot.html

The report is startling, as it reveals that the NSA discovered that Russian hackers in late October and early November 2016 planted cookies (attractive, uniquely tailored links) into the websites of 122 American city and county clerks responsible for counting ballots in the presidential election. This means that if any employee of those clerks’ offices clicked onto any cookie, the hackers had access to -- and thus the ability to interfere with -- the tabulation of votes.

 

At one point you seemed to express your agreement with what I've been saying on the Director's statement.. that is until I pointed out to you that this would mean your argument was based on your own misinterpretation of my posts.

 

I'm curious. At which point did I express agreement with what you've been saying? Our major point of disagreement is that you insist that the Joint Statements are from all "17 intelligence agencies" and I'm saying that the joint statements are from the agencies listed on the joint statement. Did I change my mind?

I'd like a quote.

 

Your statements are false.

The CIA Director was NEVER head of the "intelligence community" before 2005. He was the director of the CIA only, and had no authority or jurisdiction over the NSA, ONI, or any other intelligence service.

The Director of National Intelligence position was created to consolidate control over all 17 disperate US intelligence agencies. The DNI DOES speak for all 17, as people keep pointing out to you.

None the less, you persist with your weak rationalization. You are indulging in a classic case of cognitive dissonance. You've decided what you're going to believe, and you 're not going to let any pesky facts get in the way.

 

"The Office of United States Director of Central Intelligence (DCI) was the head of the American Central Intelligence Agency from 1946 to 2005, acting as the principal intelligence advisor to the President of the United States and the United States National Security Council, as well as the coordinator of intelligence activities among and between the various U.S. intelligence agencies (collectively known as the Intelligence Community from 1981 onwards).

The office existed from January 1946 to April 21, 2005, and was replaced on that day by the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) as head of the Intelligence Community and the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (D/CIA) as head of the CIA."

 

I explained way back in post #47 that the joint statement was from the Director of National Intelligence, and I further explained that the statement itself represents 17 agencies because the Director is the head of the USIC, and he literally opens his statement saying that the USIC is confident that Russia meddled with our elections. I gave a pretty clear description of what the USIC's involvement in the statement is in post #352, and you replied by simply stating "then we agree". You've since gone back on your expression of agreement, and seem to have made a turn to outright denying the USIC is represented at all in the Director's statement, even though he (the head of the USIC) mentions the USIC directly in the first sentence of his statement.

 

Why is that? I remember when the IRS went after a list of right-wing activists. Are you saying you are oblivious to that piece of history?

 

Thank you for making my point. Sorry, but as your own weak attempt to justify your false claim indicates, the DCI could act as coordinator, but was not the head of any other agency other than the CIA. This caused a lot of problems over the years, especially in tensions between the CIA, the NSA and the FBI. As your own unsourced quote notes, the DCI was not the head of the intelligence community before 2005.

 

When was that? I can't recall a single right wing organization ever ceasing to function because of the IRS, or can I think of a single right wing group that was ever sanctioned by the IRS, unless we're talking about something like the sort of direct mail fundraising scams taht are common in conservative circles.

 

A. You're wrong

B. It was sourced, I included a link. You know, if you get the little things wrong, why should I trust you for the bigger things?

 

Just for clarification, here is your post #47:

This was my response:

So I didn’t agree with that.

Again, for clarification, this is your post #352:

Which was in reply to my comment here.

This is key. I’ve been pretty clear that my argument is that the phrase “17 Intelligence agencies” in regard to these joint statements, is false. They were not joint statements of “17 Intelligence agencies” and most of the intelligence community had nothing to do with these joint statements. You’ve insisted throughout most of this thread that because the DNI is head of the intelligence community, that any joint statement of the DNI, no matter which intelligence agencies were involved, is from all “17 intelligence agencies.” That’s so blatantly false and indefensible that I have to give you props for continuing such an anti-factual argument for two weeks.

So to me, your statement of #352 seemed to acknowledge, based on this, “. I already acknowledged then that the 17 agencies did not independently declare that Russia was the perpetrator. It was declared via joint statement.” If “17 Intelligence agencies were not involved in these joint statements, I thought the discussion was over.

But the fact is, you are a last worder, and even though I won the argument a week ago, you’ve been fighting anyway, simply because your psychological make up seems to prevent you from giving ground on anything. So I expect this to continue until the thread closes because even though you’re wrong, you won’t surrender, so…to be continued!

 

First off, good job on the self high five.

Second, now you're admitting to misinterpreting my posts, which is really the whole reason why this discussion has gone on for so long. I have already explained everything multiple times, but you just keep finding ways to misconstrue them. At one point I explain everything, and you respond that you agree.. but then you later suggest that you only agreed because you misinterpreted me. Even though I explained in that very same post that the joint statement "concluded that the Intelligence Community was confident that Russia meddled with our elections". Which you later went back to denying

Okay, well that's progress I guess. Now that we know that you're an imperfect being just like everyone else on the planet, who sometimes makes mistakes, lets go over what the facts are, and how this discussion has gone down. No, the 17 agencies did not independently release their own statements. No one claimed that they did, you just misinterpreted them as saying that. The same goes for the fact checks. They're not wrong, the people who write these fact checks know what they are talking about, they are not fake news. You just happen to interpret them as fake news

All they are saying is the head of the USIC speaking on behalf of the USIC represents 17 different agencies. They're not wrong for coming to that conclusion, because it's completely true. You're just finding new ways to interpret them as saying something entirely different, and then posting arguments based on your own misinterpretations.

It's a tactful way to carry out a discussion.. it's not a forthright way to behave at all. I could declare myself to be the winner of any discussion I wanted if all I had to do was reinterpret what the other person was saying to mean something entirely different to what they say they mean.

 

The Russian hoax has been exposed. The deep state knew all along that there was no collusion but keeping silent on that served a political purpose. Just like Comey's testimony did.

 

Gohmert: Obama DOJ, Not The Russians, Tried To Influence Presidential Election​

By Penny Starr
6-11-2017

In an appearance on Fox News Channel’s “America’s News HQ” on Sunday, Rep. Louis Gohmert (R-TX) said that if anyone interfered with the 2016 presidential election, it wasn’t the Russians but the Department of Justice.
He specifically named former Attorney General Loretta Lynch and former FBI Director James Comey.
Gohmert referred to Comey’s testimony last week before the Senate Intelligence Committee where he said Lynch had told him to refer to the FBI’s investigation into Hillary Clinton’s mishandling of classified information as a “matter,” rather than an “investigation,” even though Clinton was under investigation.
Comey said that led him to publicly announce the end of the Clinton investigation in July 2016.
“At best, it was an attempt to manipulate the election, not by the Russians in this case, but by the Department of Justice – the Attorney General herself – because that came from Comey,” Gohmert said.
“[Comey] totally ruined his own credibility – or what was left of it,” Gohmert said. “He did vast damage and raised big red flags and questions over Loretta Lynch’s job as head of the Justice Department.
“[Lynch] was using her official position to help the campaign of Hillary Clinton and that didn’t seem to bother him enough to do a memo,” Gohmert said.
Gohmert said this should be the subject of a congressional investigation.

[**snip**]

​

Source: http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017...ssians-tried-influence-presidential-election/

It wasn't the Russians, it was Obama and Progressive Leftist Democrats, the DNC, Debbie Wasserman-Schultz and former AG Loretta Lynch all interfered with the 2016 Presidential Election. There is certainly factual proof in that.

 

Crazy Louie Gomert said that?

Well gee...it must be true huh?

 

Moist of what was leaked was already public knowledge.

But there is no information that indicates collusion and there is no information that indicates that the Russians hacked into the DNC.

The NSA has no record of a very large data stream being transmitted out of the DNC server in the first place.

Don't know if Mueller will be looking into that aspect, but he most definitely should.
If it was an internal DNC leak, instead of an international hack, the implications are enormous.

 

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You mean of course the Awan brothers who had access to more that forty Congressmen and women including the DNC computers. Shh, the LSM is burying any information related to this. They not only leaked the information they gave it to the Pakistani gov't intelligence SIS.

Disastrous National Security Breach in U.S. Congress
http://canadafreepress.com/article/disastrous-national-security-breach-in-u.s.-congress
Disastrous National Security Breach in U.S. Congress. ... Imran Awan has

 

For the first highlighted section, "No, the 17 agencies did not independently release their own statements. No one claimed that they did." well I didn't claim that you said they independently released their own statements. This is remarkably disingenuous. If there was ever a question on whether you were honestly befuddled by my argument or simply trolling even though you knew you were wrong, this clearly indicates the later.

For the second, "All they are saying is the head of the USIC speaking on behalf of the USIC represents 17 different agencies." That's quite a bit different from claiming that "17 intelligence agencies" are in agreement that the Russians hacked the election (whatever that's supposed to mean).

Please try to be honest the next time you reply.

 

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In addition, the Trump dossier since proven a lie was accepted by the "17 agencies" as gospel even though it was disproven.
"Again, the media narrative around all this is now completely oblivious to the actual content of those leaks. Including that the Democrats staged anti-Trump rallies which has since been corroborated by the fact that Dems employed paid agents provocateurs at Trump rallies to incite violence".
Is there reason to believe that former DNI Director Clapper would violate the law, deceive, and play politics with intelligence? Obviously; he already has proven that by perjuring himself before Congress. I think it was disgraceful that the intelligence agencies allowed any information that turned out to be so blatantly false and fake released.
This is something that Nazi Germany, the Stasi or Stalinists would have done and did do. It’s a disgrace. That information was false, fake and never happened but got released. IMO, they (IC) are going to suffer the consequences.