It has not escaped me that I am not talking politics. I am talking common decency in allowing folks their thoughts, beliefs, opinions without attacking them verbally and/or emotionally though.
Perhaps you would do better to reflect on the conceit that God can be put under a microscope. Seeing photons are not composed of matter, how can they exist at all? Nothing like that is promised in the Bible. Belief springs from desire; and if your desire is to be the god of your little slice of the universe, whatever lies justify that desire are what you'll believe. Maybe that would make sense, were there not so many passages in the Bible that clearly bear witness to the truth. Would you say it's wise for a scientist to maintain awareness of the limits of his knowledge? And if yes, would you say that is wise for all scientists? And if not, why not? I suspect thinking leads many more people away from God than towards Him. Possibly excepting psychopaths and sociopaths, there are no such people.
Science is a constant search for limitations. It's a procedure for carefully and methodically identifying falsehoods. Scientists have been trained for YEARS in this practice. Scientists are dedicated to carefully extending human knowledge. What would be "wise" (as you put it) would be for everyone to have this attitude. Sometimes it's not possible. For example, it is certainly impossible in the case of religion, or we wouldn't see tens of thousands of religious variations.
The Bible says that the God character loves the Jews and regards the Gentiles as animals and spit. If you are a Gentile why would you worship such a worthless deity as the biblical God?
Of course it is....It is also important for anyone in science to eliminate hypothesis when data indicates futility in pursuit in order to continue exploration of viability.
Obviously. But if you realize that religion is a matter of faith and not fact then you should also realize that trying to pretend there is any rationality to belief in god or trying to convert rational thinkers to superstition is a waste of effort.
Of course they did.. They hated their Roman oppressors who were Gentiles and the Greeks of the Decapolis.
I know very well about the lack of date for Christmas. I didn't mention any date. Whenever Christmas is held the point is that the story told at the appointed ceremony is completely wrong. If you chose to accept literally what you are told then you choose to accept a lie. .If you choose to accept it as a story that something wonderful happened, then you are simply accepting fiction. Is it possible for Joseph and family to be in Egypt and Nazareth at the same time. as the Bible says. And as the background to the story shows. Follow the genealogies in Matthew and Luke. In neither can Jesus fulfil the throne of his father David. In one it goes back through the wrong son of Solomon. In the other one of his descendants families and their decendants, are forbidden to inherit Davids kingdom. In either case one goes back to Abraham and one to Adam. And some generstions are missed. Unfortunately neither include generations (at least 10) when the Hebrews were supposed to be in Egypt for 400+ years. Another indication that they never were.
They found that a bright star which appeared over Bethlehem 2,000 years ago pinpointed the date of Christ's birth as June 17 rather than December 25. The researchers claim the 'Christmas star' was most likely a magnificent conjunction of the planets Venus and Jupiter, which were so close together they would have shone unusually brightly as a single "beacon of light" which appeared suddenly. If the team is correct, it would mean Jesus was a Gemini, not a Capricorn as previously believed. Australian astronomer Dave Reneke used complex computer software to chart the exact positions of all celestial bodies and map the night sky as it would have appeared over the Holy Land more than 2,000 years ago. It revealed a spectacular astronomical event around the time of Jesus's birth. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/christmas/3687843/Jesus-was-born-in-June-astronomers-claim.html
Patterns of Evidence: The Exodus is a thought-provoking and relevant movie! Filmmaker Timothy Mahoney takes on the hot potato of Biblical history the Exodus and matches it up against what archaeologists, historians and naysayers have to say about the Bible s accuracy. Kevin Sorbo narrates this documentary that focuses on digging for the truth (no pun intended). Benjamin Netanyahu, Prime Minister of Israel, comments that the Bible has held the imaginations of people for thousands of years and that is a remarkable thing. Other political and religious leaders and archaeologists are featured, including Shimon Peres, former president of Israel, who says the Bible is the greatest legislator of our time. Mahoney finds that there is little archaeological evidence of the Exodus during the time of Ramesses, who most historians believe was the Pharaoh who spoke with Moses and initially refused to let God s people go. Yet when Mahoney backtracks to the Middle Kingdom, some 200 years earlier, the evidence is pretty impressive. Do the other scholars have the time frame wrong? There is controversy in the documentary for sure. Different leaders disagree with each other. Rabbi David Wolpe frankly states the Exodus didn t happen as the Bible depicts it, and archaeologist Norma Franklin from the University of Haifa doesn t believe it happened at all. Yet there are many who believe it did happen; there are also diggings that some believe prove the walls of Jericho fell, and that Rahab s quarters did not fall. There is evidence Jericho was burned as the Bible says it was. Professor Rosalie David from the University of Manchester speaks of the sudden abandonment of a people that would resemble the Hebrews and their Exodus. In one place a tablet with the name Jabin is found; he was the king that Joshua killed. The documentary features art work, several historians and archaeologists, religious leaders, and scenes featuring views of tablets and various ruins in Egypt. I just wanted to know the truth, says Mahoney, and he went to a lot of trouble trying to find it. This documentary chronicles his travels from the U.S. to Egypt, to Israel and to England. The movie finishes with Mahoney reading a rare book written by Alan Gardiner, who concludes that not enough evidence has been found to pin down certain Biblical events to definite time frames. This could support the possibility that the Middle Kingdom is the age of the Exodus, rather than the later time of Ramesses. At any rate, this film attempts to navigate the sometimes murky waters of history. We are happy to award this documentary, Patterns of Exodus: The Exodus, our Faith-Friendly Seal for all ages, although it is not intended for the very young who would have a hard time understanding it. For everyone else, it will be a fascinating look into a great moment in history and in archaeology: the exodus of Moses and the Hebrews from Egyptian bondage. --Focus on the Family Patterns of Evidence:Exodus they found a Hebrew city under Apis (?).. complete with an empty tomb with with a statue depicting a Hebrew in a multicolored robe.
Not when you know God is real. It is no longer a matter of faith. It is a reality. Now indeed all the trimmings of theology, doctrine, dogma, etc. are matters of faith, and I find it fascinating to debate/discuss that with those who also find it fascinating. But in the end, I don't think God much cares about our theology. He cares about our kindness, our compassion, how we treat our fellow man, how we represent Him to others, our relationship with him. But when you come right down to it, unless you have witnessed something with your own eyes and/or have experience something yourself, so much of science is based on reason, logic, probability but ultimately on faith that those who have done the research and reported it are right.
Without necessarily agreeing with your point of view which is no less speculative than anybody elses, I have done all of that, written about it, and taught about it to adults with advanced educational degrees. Including a fair number of scientists and historians. I included all the inconsistencies and improbabilities and contradictions. At no time have I ever taught that everything in the Bible must be taken literally. And I don't. But neither will I try to destroy the faith of the person who does take it literally because what he/she believes and understands harms absolutely nobody. It is important to him/her and to disparage his/her belief is cruel and unnecessary. Nevertheless the Bible is an incredible and fascinating body of literature and best understood when read through the eyes of those who wrote it rather than from our own 21st Century understanding. Once we do that, the view is much different. And the fact that a story may be allegorical or a composite of many of any other explanation that could be at play does not change the larger truth contained in the telling for those capable of understanding. My understanding of God is based on experience, not theology, dogma, doctrine. I don't expect anyone who has not had that experience to understand however.
Did they take into account that Jesus was born around 5-6BCE. Did they take into account the changes in Calendars down the years. Did the take into account the seasonal axial tilts of the earth. Did they take into account the earth's spin axis' This is not the first known 'birth' star; The Ancient Arabians were great astrologers. and the conjunctions between Jupiter and Venus are a regular occurence. Did the Sages travel every time they saw it - about once a year.? # All we have about the Exodus are words written in the Bible. Nothing in Egyptian History or any other history I know. No-one can agree when this supposed event took place. The fact that there were people of all races living in Egypt in separate communities is known..Groups of tribes went in and out of the Nile Delta to feed their flocks on the lush pasture.The Egyptians used slaves they had captured during battle. Did Ahmose take some Hysos captive for slaves? Possibly. Again, no-one can agree when the walls of Jericho 'fell down'. I can tell you. Several times in Jericho's history. It sits in an active earthquake. zone. It didn't need a 'Joshua'. All it took was an earthquake. Since then one was recorded in the 12th century CE and another took place in 1926. It shook the area around for miles. Whilst Jericho had thick walls it was only a village you could walk round in 15-20 minutes. Benjamin Netanyahu, Prime Minister of Israel, comments that the Bible has held the imaginations of people for thousands of years and that is a remarkable thing. Other political and religious leaders and archaeologists are featured, including Shimon Peres, former president of Israel, who says the Bible is the greatest legislator of our time I would hardly expect them to say anything else.
Of course it would say something like that. The church is a business. The more customers it has the more revenue it gets. Have you been forking over the 10% minimum of your gross income? That is 10% less for you and 10% for the guys in the fancy robes or suits.
Quick, what are the real Ten Commandments and the twelve curses? Which set is the Bible based on? When the wise men brought gifts to the baby Jesus character which commandment or curse did it illustrate?
The apostles were clearly evangelical, working to include gentiles across a wide region. Your ideas just don't coincide with numerous strong messages throughout the new testament.
For one thing the Gregorian Calendar did not exist until the 16th Century. And the Bible mentions no specific dates at all. So using specific dates isn't too usual in debating Biblical accuracy. For sure those who wrote the Biblical manuscripts were not concerned about specific dates but were interested in getting the story down on clay tablets or papyrus or parchment. So when Jesus was specifically born isn't critical in understanding the story. Only the naysayers would nitpick that. But do you consider that an ancient Egyptian Pharoah who was bested and humiliated by the Hebrews would have expunged that from Egyptian history? Just look at all the efforts in the USA to take down statues and destroy any visible evidence of our history, expunging much from the history books, not including certain history in the school curriculum. Just today I watched a man-on-the-street interview in which numerous college students--UNIVERSITY STUDENTS--had never heard of the Holocaust and didn't have a clue that the Nazis had exterminated 6 million Jews in WWII. Most had no idea what the Declaration of Independence or the Revolutionary War was all about or that their are founding documents undergirding the original U.S. Cosntitution. Erasing history is one means of controlling the people. Do you honestly believe somebody with the unlimited power of Egyptian Pharoahs would have wanted the Exodus event in their historical record? Or would not have taken measures to expunge it? And yet there are hints here and there in the archeological record just the same. Did it happen exactly as the Bible tells it? Probably not. Did it happen at all? Biblical historians and archeaologists have been researching and debating that for centuries. Here is a recent pretty good discussion giving all sides of that debate: https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/exodus/exodus-fact-or-fiction/
I'm sorry but I don't get into the minutiae of Biblical conspiracy theorists. You should address that question to somebody who likes that sort of thing.
False. The early Christians including the apostles made NO dollars off of increasing the number of Christians in Rome, or Corinth, or Ephesus, or any of the other places where early evangelical Christians worked to increase the number of converts - as directed in the Bible. And, THAT is the foundation. One can question the motives of leaders today. One can question why humans WANT the kind of finery that you criticize. But, I don't see any way to suggest that the early Christians documented in the Bible were working for personal gain, nor were they promoting anything in that direction.
If dates aren't important then why does history tell us that Herod the Great died 4BC. Jesus must have been born 6-5BCE if you take all facts into accouint. The Egyptian economy depended on the slaves. \if the Bible figures are correct - probably not - 3,000,000 people left Egypt. That's nearly half of the population. The loss of those would have affected the whole economy and could not have been hid. Slaves were used as household 'servants' for the elite. As workers in other fields, and often as auxiliaries. This isn't something that can be hidden. If you're thinking of Amenhotep - Akhenaten it wasn't difficult to write him out. His ideas were not generally accepted by the people or most priests outside his own clique, and mostly ignored. I've seen the article as I belong to the Society
You will continue to nitpick the fine details which is not what the Bible is all about. I will continue to appreciate a powerful and enduring message that the Bible offers which IS what the Bible is all about. And we can let it go at that.
Fine. there's no reason for you not to appreciate what YOU THINK the Bible says. I will continue to ask how the nativity stories can be true when they contradict themselves. How Christianity can take a verse out of context to make Jesus divine. Etc etc. Still. That's up to you. Just remember, one nitpick can change a whole scenario. Good luck.
On Sep. 2 @ 10:19 am you wrote in Post #626 = "I have studied the Bible at seminary level and, while I do not consider myself an expert, have enough knowledge to teach it competently--write adult curriculum on it actually." Therefore, I was hoping that you could give us the benefit of your seminary training and teach us new things about the Bible. A fresh viewpoint such as you may be able to provide might get us out of the rut that we tend to fall in every once in a while. It is our loss that you are unable to share your knowledge with us. I suppose we will stay in our rut until someone comes along who will be willing to pull us out of it.
