Yes, but relatively speaking piss poor poverty here is Disneyland in the third world. Living paycheck to paycheck is still a living and here in the west the poor have social safety nets. Do you really think a more socialist country would fare better? I can tell you it would not, wealth redistribution would start with the middle class and those above that would not be affected in the least and a great large number of those are "progressives". That is an exclusive club that you and I will never belong to.The amount of poverty would increase and instead of helping the poor you and I would be competing with them.
I live in Canada. It is more socialist than the USA. I dont feel oprrssed by or in competition with the I think the best societies are a healthy mixture of capitalism and socialism. Either on its own doesnt work well at all.
Other first world countries stand in awe of our healthcare system. We have the freedom of having the most expense healthcare in the world with the highest drug prices. The ability to go bankrupt over medical bills. The ability to ration or not take medicine because of cost. We can choose not to see a doctor because of lack of insurance and let chronic diseases fester into long term healthcare needs. Untreated hypertension leads to kidney failure, for example, it leads to dialysis which costs between $70,000 and $ 90,000 a year in tax money. You get the idea. Socialized medicine would be cheaper in the long run with less bureuacracy and managed chronic disease that would prevent slow lingering illnesses with expensive multiple hospitalizations. And you worry about the money.....My employer and I pay $14,000 a year for my family plan. We use a fraction of that on doctors yearly. If that were taken out in taxes instead I would not notice a thing. Oh, on higher education, I have a niece who went to Germany to get her masters degree. She had to buy her own books. And by the way, the upper 20% have 93% of the wealth.
My wife and I have a retainer agreement with our physician for which we pay less than your family plan not a lot less but less. American healthcare was the best on the planet until the ACA came along and now our healthcare system is so hopelessly broken it's beyond repair. That is why I opted out and am quite happy with our arrangement. Yes healthcare costs are out of control and the level of care is in the toilet but don't expect to fix it with some pipe dream like single payer. Unfortunately we don't have a congress that is willing to work on this problem. The cost of education is also off the charts, my grandchildren's educations combined runs into the millions. The problem isn't just the cost, the quality is appalling, just absolute crap. I think we need to threaten the Ivy league with losing their non profit status since it seems they are making quite a bit of money. I don't understand your obsession with the wealth of the upper 20%, it is what it is but like it or not we are dependent on them. There is no way to change this particular situation, even in the unlikely event that the US were to become a communist state the only change would be that 93% would become 100% and the rest of us would become peasants. The only thing one can do is educate themselves to acquire a job that pays well and to invest wisely and live modestly. Class envy seems to be a problem these days but relatively speaking nothing has changed. There will always be rich and poor, the haves and have nots but at least in America one can overcome their circumstances if they work for it. I don't know why this is a problem for a lot of Americans, there is no shortage of immigrants who came here with nothing and through their own industry became extremely wealthy.
I give you facts I can prove and you give me unsubstantiated partisan gut feelings as in we had the "best" healthcare on the planet until the ACA and higher education is "absolute crap". So much hot air. You don't get why I bring up the upper 20%. Trump gave them and him a tax cut. The GOP at one time worried about the deficit but now the rich pay a lower rate than the bottom 50%. They are an untapped resource and many rich people have said so since they control 93% of the nations wealth.
Young Americans who are a product of public education have gotten extremely shortchanged and are woefully behind the rest of the world when it comes to college preparedness. Those same kids are graduating from America's colleges and universities about the same as they went in. I worked for a company whose hiring practices are unorthodox but very effective in acquiring high quality individuals who have something to bring to the table. Interviews are conducted by a team of upper management people who weed out non prospects. The next step is another group interview by department managers and finally an informal meeting with the people the candidate would be working with. Each hire depends on a strong consensus. This process arose out of the frustration of going through the time and expense of hiring someone who looked good on paper only to find they out had little going for them. I was involved in this process and I have to say America is mass producing morons. For a time we would deal with dozens of people to find the right fit for a single position, that number grew to hundreds. That was a while ago but I assume it hasn't gotten any better. Tax cuts are never a bad thing considering that we still pay too much even with a tax cut. Our government is many times bigger than it needs to be and is not very good with managing tax dollars. We cannot continue to grow the government and add endless new programs and remain solvent. New taxes are always needed to pay for mistakes, corporations and individuals don't have that luxury and we need to take it away from the government. On the matter of American healthcare, I live a short ride from some of the best hospitals in the world and they are not what they used to be and that is a direct result of the ACA. Let's face it, medicine is a business and has a bottom line, when the government screws with that something has to give. We have to get the government 100% out of our healthcare. Also you talk about the rich being an untapped resource. Resource? These are people not a commodity, not a piggy bank and you and I or even the government are not entitled to their wealth. That is pure socialist horse flop. We are a capitalist nation and society, you generally have what you're willing to work and should not a have nickel of what someone else earned.
I think that trying to equate Satan to a political belief is underestimating Satan and his power a little bit. When those people in the OP were speaking of the Devil it was in an overall general tone, not a specific thing. There are many things that are evil that are purely coming from humans, they don't all come from the Devil. Face it, there are just some bad people around. There are also good things that happen that have nothing to do with God I'd imagine.
Thank you for more "unsubstantiated partisan gut feelings" and it seems you care more about the upper 20% than the lower 80%.
Quoting Bible verses and exclamation marks does not establish validity to a position argued but it does show the person engaging in the exclamation marks and need to quote the Bible is frightened and insecure. A person with genuine spiritual feelings to share does not scream or use the words of others as a weapon.
The premises of the thread was an individual using Bible passages to justify his personal subjective opinions. The fact he quoted Bible verses does not and can not make his opinions objective or factual. His definition of Satan and how he uses it is intended for him to make social and political commentary based on his subjective opinions. I do not consider any human's subjective opinions that are not objectively based and proven or logical as valid let alone more valid than the subjective opinions of others. The manner in which Satan or Satanism is tossed about is absurd. Its being used as a Catch 22 to label any view the person using the term Satan disagrees with. The method in which the word "progressive" is used assumes its a one size fits all concept which in itself is ridiculous. Satan or God or any other words that come out of someone's mouth and are put on to paper are based on subjective beliefs. Ironically if I were to use the very arguments of the person who started the thread, this makes him Satan. Using subjective religious bias to preclude the right of anyone else to disagree is what this thread was started for.
I care about all Americans, I just live in reality, your attacking the very wealthy is a lot of wishful thinking. If suddenly America lost it's mind and went full blown progressive the rich folks would just leave and take all of their wealth with them. I am not wealthy but I am comfortable, I worked for all that I have. I used to give a lot to charities but there's too many scams these days so I only give to local charities where I can do it in person and see where the money is going. Homeless shelters are safe as are no kill animal shelters. That's about it except for the occasional pan handler. I also will not vote for anyone who is for growing the government and expanding entitlements. You have to see the world for what it is and always has been Edna.
You live in reality...like your initial description of a "progressive" fantasy? You've not given me any evidence. You have skewed partisan gut opinions that lack evidence. And when did I "attack" the wealthy? I noted they pay less in taxes than the bottom 50%. Does that sound fair? In the 60s they payed nearly 60% in taxes and the bottom 20%. Did they leave and take their wealth with them? I have worked for what I have too. I also wish the country to be healthy, happy and successful. I am willing to invest in it to make it so. That's how patriotic I am. Removing the burden of healthcare and making it available to all is one step another is making higher education affordable to all. All the other first world countries can do it, but maybe we're just too self-centered. BTW if you want to spend money to help people go to kiva.org and you can give loans to small businesses through micro-loans. Capitalism in action. Been doing it for years.
I'm not really equating Progressivism with satanism, but am suggesting that the SOURCE of progressive ideology is satanic. When the tactics, agenda, and ideals are the same, in both the works of the devil AND Progressivism, it's hard to not make a correlation. ..perhaps they are both from the same source? But, even for those who don't believe in a literal devil, the similarities between the human metaphor for evil (satan), and the tactics of Progressivism (lies, violence, darkness, etc) SHOULD give pause to all citizens, and make them question whether this ideology has any value in a free society. They ACCUSE, constantly. 'America is racist!!' All white people are privileged and racist!!' This is absurd. These are racial slurs, directed at white people, to promote a racial caricature. It is no different than saying, 'All black people are violent thugs!' The race baiting, divisiveness tactic of the progressive left is NOT for unity, peace, or understanding, but breeds mistrust, hostility, and division. ..coincidentally, a tactic of the devil. Instead of Americans being united, looking past race, it is emphasized, making race a point of contention, instead of a mere cosmetic difference. The CONSTANT barrage of lies, accusations, and violent outbursts from these pathetic dupes of progressive Indoctrination, is only evidence that they have abandoned reason, reality, and critical thinking, for the satanic delusion of progressive madness.
Your accusations are noted. 1. Very few Bible verses have been offered, as examples of the tactics, agenda, and nature of Satan. 2. I submit that Jesus is/was a better Authority on the person and agenda of Satan than some contemporary speculator. 3. If one does not believe in a literal devil, the imagery of human evil is still apropos. 4. I'm not shouting, but perhaps i should be. If this ideology (Progressivism), is sourced from satanic evil, then shouts of alarm, and multiple exclamation points are inadequate, to convey the danger the indoctrinees of progressive ideology are in. 5. Wake up!! The devil prowls about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour! Don't be deceived by his mind numbing lies, but escape his clutches! 6. Progressive ideology is a deadly poison for humanity. It is anti God, anti American, and anti human. It leads to madness, death, and destruction.
Putting the "Satanist" label aside (I am atheist and see Satan as good and biblical God as bad), I think I may actually agree with your point here. I take issue with those same people, but I don't call them "progressive". I call them illiberal, or regressive. I am curious if you make a distinction between these identify politics obsessed authoritarian illiberals and "progressive" liberals such as Bernie Sanders,etc, who focus on egalitarianism and socio-economic issues like universal health care, universal basic income, etc. Do you see these as different groups of liberals or do you group them together in your mind? As a liberal from the 80s (in Canada) whose stance on most political issues hasn't changed since, I'm all for treating people equally regardless of class, race etc, but I find the illiberal regressives just as if not more alarming than the far right conservatives (what you'd think would be my ideological opponent). These regressives call for segregation ("safe spaces"), claim "black people can't be racist", freak out if you say "all lives matter" etc. I see these people as racists.
In regards to 1, your qualification "very few" is not relevant to the fact that you do use Bible verses to try legitimize your comments and in your latest response to me yet again use Bible quotes. The fact you need the words of others to speak to me simply shows you have nothing of yourself to share which is sad. In regards to 2 you state a subjective opinion no doubt you were taught must be repeated to others. In regards to 3, whether Satan is literal or a human construct is not the issue with your words, it is how you use your words and in particular the reference of Satan as a label for anything you disagree with. In fact you use the term "Progressive ideology" in 6 the exact same way-as a one size fits all label for any thought or view you think deviates from the script of values you were taught to follow. The issue is how you use such words as a weapon to justify screaming at others and calling them mad, dead and/or destructive. In regards to 4, of course you are. When you use exclamation marks as you repeatedly do and did in 5, you embrace shouting as necessary. Shouting does not make your message any stronger or more valid. just the opposite. In regards to 5, it appears when you scream at others you show you won't address your own fears but blame them as being created by others. The need to scream, invoke Satan, accuse people of being mad, etc., because you think they disagree with you is an overused script/ Sadly you can't embrace the most basic of concepts and that is all screaming does is repel the very people you seek adoration from. Let me put it in simpler terms. Do your pants up before you commence any speech to others. The way you are pointing simply will lead to your arrest for indecent exposure.
They wouldn't leave at all...they'd stick around and reap all the benefits of a progressive society like national healthcare, lower drug prices. low cost/quality education for their kids and grand-kids. cleaner energy, cleaner air and water, etc.. Rich people aren't fools when it comes to taking advantage of a good situation...
Well, when you have a significant portion of the population awaiting the return of their zombie savior after 2000 years, you can see where the problem lies.
Yeah, that's the ticket, and who's going to pay for all those rainbows you're blowing out your ass????
