A question for liberal on the forum

Why is it when people flee a country it is always a socialist country. Why do you never see people flee TOO a socialist country?

Answer?

 

The answer is simple. They aren't feeling socialism. They are fleeing oppression, corruption, poverty, and crime. The US is not perfect, but it rarely engages in blatant and wide spread oppression. We provide opportunities to everyone, for the most part. And by and large, we keep the aforementioned issues at bay. Better than other countries.

Oh, and to be clear, you're saying that England, France, Germany, and most of Western Europe aren't more socialist than the US? Because people flee to those countries all the time...No country is purely socialist anyway, but some are more than others.

 

America is the greatest country on earth thus why people want to live here. It was greater under Trump.

 

You'll have to prove such statements. And the data on Sweden alone belies your flawed conclusion. If it were true, why don't we see Swedes leaving in droves and smuggling themselves into the US? Because you're statement is pure opinion and they don't share it, that's why. And that's just one country. The rest of western Europe isn't impressed much. Canada isn't either. Neither is Japan.

 

They DO flee to Norway,Sweden,Denmark and Finland as well as other European countries you probably consider socialist.

 

From the end of the Civil War until the beginning of the first World War, half the population of Sweden moved to America. At one point there were more Swedes living in Chicago than in any Swedish city. In order to curb the outflow, Sweden reorganized their society so that it would be more beneficial to the people who live there. Sweden has more social programs than most, but also one of the highest standards of living.

 

Well you would be wrong there. Sweden has a non political Monarchy, and a parliamentary form of government.

It gets kind of tiresome when so many leftwinger/socialist on this forum claim that most european countries are socialist. THEY ARE NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Do you consider countries like Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, France, Canada, Germany etc... socialist? Those countries take in lots of refugees. Didn't Canada take in more Syrian refugees than the US and the have 10% of the population?

If you do not consider them socialist why do you call so many on the left socialist because that is what most progressives want to emulate. Democratic socialism. They want free health care like the countries the listed. More social programs and minimum wage like these countries. And even free higher level education like the Scandinavian countries.

 

You're right, it's not. Neither are the countries that people are fleeing here from. But it practices more socialism than the US.

Sorry, but things aren't black and white. You even are confusing the type of government with an economic system. Socialism is an ECONOMIC system. Not a political one. So it's rich you would lecture us on the understanding of these terms. In fact, I even stated that no country is a purely socialist country as no country practices only one economic system in it's purity. That includes Sweden and the US. But Sweden certainly offers more of the so called "socialist" policies you abhor implementing here in the US. So...

 

They didn't change much in terms of less socialist economic policies until the 1980's and 1990's. The emmigration you are referring to had nothing to do with socialism. In fact, it ushered in more socialism in the country.

Swedish emigration to the United States - Wikipedia

 

Which almost inevitably is the result of Socialist.

. Not perfect but lightyears ahead of whoever is #2. I saw a stat the other day that said of the number of people leaving their country 50% are coming here.

They may fit some definition of "socialism" in some people's minds, but they are far from the textbook definition of Socialism. A government offering a few social services doesn't comprise Socialism.

 

No, it's not. It's the result of nations that lack governments built upon rule of law. They rely on rule of person instead. Again, socialism is an economic and political theory, it's not a system of government. A system of government is such as a republic or a democratic republic or a democratic monarchy, etc.

Again, this is pure subjective opinion. There is no number 1 ranking that we win over all. There are measures such as health, happiness, GDP, etc. Usually we only top out on the money measuring ones. The rest we are never number 1 in.

You're right, but I suspect you don't know the textbook definition of socialism. Here it is: a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

So by this very definition, a pure socialist system cannot be tyrannical or oppressive. If everyone owns the means of all production, well we'd all be well off and all have a say in what goes on, wouldn't we? So again, blaming socialism isn't accurate. In fact, ask the people fleeing here. Few would cite socialism at all. I mean, Fidel Castro was a communist, which is not the same as socialism, and he was also a brutal, oppressive dictator. So no wonder people fled there.

 

Your statement is not true. According to the UN Refugee Program Here are the top 10 countries people are fleeing :
Syria
Venezuela
Alfghanistan
Myanmar
Turkey
Columbia
Packistan
Uganda
Germany
Sudan

Not even a majority are socialist countries

 

Inequality in the U.S. was so bad, thousands of American women moved to Soviet Russia
They went looking for the ‘the freedom their souls craved’
https://timeline.com/american-women-moved-russia-5eec1b68cd34

Tim Tzouliadis: These people did fall into one of those crevasses of history. When the Cold War began in the 1940s, the Soviets didn't want it publicised that so Americans had come over or that so many American industrialists had helped with the industrialisation of the Soviet Union. And it was also an embarrassment to the American government that all these Americans were trapped in Russia and that the State Department had manifestly failed to save them. So these people were ignored by both sides – they were victims of international politics as well as Stalinism. It's a forgotten chapter of twentieth century history, and yet the story tells you so much about the United States as a country, and about Americans as emigrants as opposed to immigrants, and about Stalinism.
https://www.dazeddigital.com/artsan.../the-forgotten-american-emigrants-to-the-ussr

 

That is what I was getting at. It was the monarchy and church that drove the people away. It was after so many people had left that it was decided to institute socialist reforms. The reforms stopped the outflow of citizens and continued, and continued building until they ran into a financial crises in the 1980's when they restructured some of their programs.

 

Mexico, Guatemala, and Honduras are not socialist countries either, and that is where immigrants from south of the border tend to come from.

 

honduras, guatamala, and el salvador are "socialist countries?" i wonder if standard fruit inc knows that.

you can say lots of things about the arab countries that people are fleeing. but they are not socialist.

that kind of leaves india which is famously capitalist and china with their capitalist economy.

people did not flee eastern europe until they became capitalist either.

 

Still not mention of people in the US fleeing to Cuba or Venezuela!!!!

 

Am I allowed to respond? ... I'm liberal on some issues and conservative on others ...

what was the question again? ...

 

Lol...your whole premise is wrong and the thread is a fail.

 

i don't know where the "cubans for trump" are located, but more likely miami than havana.

 

Well lets talk Cuba. Bernie Sanders for years has been telling us what a wonder socialist/commie paradise Cuba is. Yet ever since Castro took over people have been fleeing that socialist paradise to the US on anything they could get to float. OTOH I dont see US citizens fleeing to Cuba!!!

Care to explain that?

 

and you ignore Syria Myrimar Turkey etc. Whats your point that a small part of what you say may have been true?

 

Huh? a system of economics and political theory is NOT a system of government? Socialism demands government control of production and distribution. THAT'S a system of government - by any measure.

LOL, subjective and highly opinionated "measures".

Well, that's ONE "definintion"; in reality that devolves into a ruling class imposing authoritarian control and direction.

Sure, IF one could ever be created and operated on that definition - but so far that hasn't happened on an large scale.

Problem is that it would be impossible to implement at any scale. The usual real life implementation is a bureaucratic structure controlled by an authoritarian ruling class.

Maniy people fleeing cite the oportunities for more personal freedom and the ability to control their own lives.