Where is the mandate?

A couple of mistakes here.

One, no, vaccine-resistant mutations can happen independent of vaccines, as PROVEN by the fact that the Delta variant was first spotted in India on October 5th, 2020, while vaccination in Indian only started on January 16, 2020. See, without a functioning time travel machine, you can't explain as the cause of an event, something that happened 3.5 months after the event. Mutations can happen spontaneously and some of them prove to be more vaccine resistant. And while the idea that the vaccines will foster mutations is attractive, in reality it's not what is happening. The mutations are occurring preferentially in people who harbor the virus for a long time. Vaccinated people clear it much faster therefore are less likely to generate mutations (not impossible, though, but less likely).

Two, no, the Covid mRNA vaccines do not reprogram your own DNA. The manufacture of spike proteins is done directly by the instructions from the vaccine-delivered mRNA that enters the cytoplasm of the cell (and doesn't enter the nucleus of the cells). The vaccine has no capacity to alter human mRNA or DNA. The vaccine's mRNA doesn't make more mRNA. It teaches your cells how to make spike proteins. Once the spike proteins are made, the cell breaks down the vaccine-delivered mRNA and gets rid of it (12 hours later, it's all gone). Of course the result is the same, the manufacturing of spike proteins, but I just thought it's important to understand this distinction, not to foster conspiracy theories that the mRNA vaccines alter human genetic materials.

 

No the odds were not in his favor. That’s why I’d like to be able to use things that move the odds more in their favor.

I don’t believe in just writing such people off because they are old and have cancer.

 

Someone I must have on ignore seems to be talking about Colin Powell? He was immunosuppressed due to his multiple myeloma and its treatment. The vaccine doesn't catch well for such individuals, even boosters. This is nothing new. Someone with a drastically weakened immune system won't respond to these vaccines or to any other vaccine. To use his case to bash the vaccines is a display of ignorance.

And yes, certain youngsters here are ageist and think it's no big deal that we're losing many seniors to Covid-19. I hope one day they will mature and understand better what the elders have to contribute, in experience and wisdom, to the fabric of society. I greatly admired Colin Powell (would gladly have voted for him if he had accepted the numerous invitations he got, actually from both parties, to run for president) despite his one mistake related to the Iraq War (nobody is perfect) and I am very saddened to hear of his passing, and believe it to be a big loss, regardless of his age and underlying medical condition.

 

Yes, everyone seems to like Powell. I really did as well.

Nobody is bashing the vaccines in the context of Powell. I’m just lamenting we can’t passively vaccinate such individuals and prevent a lot of these deaths in the aged and immunocompromised. I’m sure people like Powell would even be willing to pay for it if available. I know you want to see more research but I don’t see any reason to withhold this option from people like Powell.

 

@CenterField,
Forgot to add the point about the value of the aged to society is a good one. I’ve also noticed references to even parents not being of great value when aged. It’s disturbing.

 

I really don't care about those freedoms as long as I retain the freedom to stay alive.

 

Covid killed Powell, not because somebody wasn't vaccinated, it killed him in spite of the fact that he was but there is no guarantee. Get vaccinated if you choose and use reasonable caution when you're out and about and there isn't much else you can do. Hating on people who see it differently isn't going to help you or them.

 

Uh..how do any of the cited behaviors on my part directly affect you? Frex. How does my not exercising put you in more danger of you getting a horrible disease?

I do all those things and that's because sources I read say I may die if I don't. I try not to eat anything that might make me more likely to die of COVID.

 

If someone forced a diet on you and forced you to exercise would life be enjoyable enough to care?

 

I don't hate on people, but I do think that people who willfully forego a lifesaving vaccine that will help them and others for no good reason should be refused treatment if they catch the disease later on. All resources are limited and lifesaving types of resources are called that with good reason. They should be limited to people who have done what most everyone else has done to reasonably preserve their own lives. Mind, that doesn't apply to everyone who eats red meat etc. but people who eat red meat laced with strychnine are exactly who I am talking about.

 

Because exercise plays a critical role in not only direct immune function but it affects BMI, diabetes risk, etc. that make infection more likely and make you more likely to infect others as well.

That’s good. I’m glad you are. Now that you know doing those things makes people less likely to infect others are you ready to mandate diet and exercise to the rest of the planet?

 

If it were a choice between living and dying I'd get by. I pretty much do that now to some extent So do you and so does everyone, I bet.

 

Do you think diabetes is catching?

 

Well not everyone since obesity alone kills about as many annually as Covid does now. Smoking kills even more. So no, people do not make healthy choices to stay alive. Very few do.

I get exercise and good food from things I enjoy doing. Not everyone enjoys good food and exercise. I don’t want to force people to do things they hate or don’t want to do.

 

To a certain extent, yes, because of it’s link to obesity and obesity has a contagious component.

Also, diabetes is often caused by viral infections that are “catching”.

 

So, wait, obesity is contagious? Please cite proof of that, along with proof that it is at least as contagious as COVID. Same for diabetes.

 

People don't make healthy choices that are difficult no, but getting the vaccine is far from difficult

 

Nobody has claimed obesity is as contagious as Covid. But it does kill as many and that’s the relevant metric to me.

I will gladly link you to my previous presentations of the evidence obesity is contagious.
http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?posts/1072968705/

Obesity also negatively affects society far beyond the contagious component.

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?posts/1072944841/

Obesity is the number one risk factor for diabetes so it follows diabetes has a solid foundation in various contagions.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3066828/
Also, diabetes is caused by viral infections including influenza and Covid adding to the infectious component.

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?posts/1072701370/

If you have any further questions I’m happy to answer them. I want people to have this information so they can help themselves and others be healthier.

 

That depends. I know people who have had adverse reactions to vaccines in the past. It’s not easy for them. Some people DO have a religious foundation for their wish to remain unvaccinated. It’s not easy for them. Some demographics distrust the medical/scientific community for good reasons. It’s not easy for them.

We don’t make decisions about freedom on how easy something is for an individual. Exercise and good diet are EASY for me. But I don’t believe that gives me the right to force others to follow my path.

 

Your analogies are hard to connect, eating red meat with strychnine equal not getting a covid shot?

 

Indeed it is. There's evidence of it. Weird, huh? Yes, real life is weird sometimes, and goes against common sense.
But not as contagious as Covid.
Both 557 and I have posted evidence that obesity is contagious, in the past. I won't go fetch it, because I figure that 557 already did.

 

About Colin Powell and monoclonal antibodies: yes, I wish the FDA would approve the mabs as passive immunity for people at risk, before they catch Covid-19. Makes sense, especially for the immunocompromised who can't mount their own internal antibody factories. Unfortunately the Emergency Use Authorization doesn't go as far, currently, but it would be interesting if it did. I said to @557 at one point that I'd like to see more evidence, but when we see some special people like Colin Powell dying without this help, it hurts. So maybe the evidence of benefit is not the most complete ever... but the evidence of harm is very tiny too, so, I'm thinking now, in these desperate situations when the vaccines don't kick in because the person's immune system is too weak, why not try it? At least for the immunocompromised, prophylactic use should be authorized.

 

There is 2 thinks you mix, livestyle and a possible virus infection with risks or high risks.
We banned smoking indoors in public places. That is a livestyle decision. You smoke, but not indoor in public places, because the smoke might cause harm to others. No big deal.
Your diet and lassines, does not cause harm to others, your livestyle.
But a potential deadly disease is not a livestyle decision, its about overall public health. That's why there are vaccination mandates for so many diseases, the US and worldwide.
If my livestyle, like smoking becomes a public danger, second hand smoke, than the needs to be mandate, which we have. If the livestyle of anti vaxxers become a public danger, than there needs to be a mandate.
If we want to get rid of C19, we need mandates, as we have for other diseases.

 

Please follow the links in post #168. It will help you understand that diet and exercise DO affect others—greatly. We don’t automatically mandate things that decrease public risk. Not the way the world works. If you have any questions after following the links in post #168
I’m happy to discuss further.

I’m coming to realize people are just completely unaware of how diet and exercise affect others, not just the individual. It makes me sad I’m the only one giving people this information.

 

The benefit of the vaccines for me is negligible and I refuse to be forced to take it. I've tested positive for the antibodies 6 times in the last 14 months, since I recovered from covid. I've been exposed to covid from working all day in close proximity to infected coworkers twice with no ill effects. One of those coworkers almost died. I'm not looking to test my immunity, but I'm pretty comfortable with it for now. Maybe that will change if I ever stop testing positive for antibodies. My choice.