Where is the mandate?

You really don't see the issue. Because you are comfortable with the idea, you don't see a reason why anyone else should be uncomfortable with the idea.

Since many people believe in the 'choice' theory regarding one's body, it really does apply across the board. It's not a pick or choose plan. Either you do believe in freedom of choice or you don't.

You chose vaccination. Other people don't. The attempts of certain groups who feel they know better then the individual about what is right for their body have attempted to coerce people into getting an injection. You are supporting that idea.

 

When did anybody pretend that the vaccines were 100% efficacious? I mean, not the scientific community. We can't control what politicians say. But what we said, not even when the Delta variant wasn't with us, was never in the sense of 100% efficacy. Remember the first Pfizer and Moderna studies? They got to, respectively, 95% and 94% of efficacy, so even before Delta, 1 in 20 vaccinated people could still catch a symptomatic infection. This was made worse by Delta, obviously, and by what we know now, that vaccine immunity tends to fade at or around the 6-month mark, which explains why countries that jumped ahead in vaccination are now seeing spikes, because their population is farther removed from their basic vaccination dates than the population in other countries, so the immunity is fading, not to forget that Delta is capable of re-infecting people and of breaking through vaccine protection, better than previous variants.

The vaccines can not STOP the spread (as in, screeching halt 100% stop, period), and if politicians (and even some health officials) said it, it's a lie or a mistake (depending on the person's intention when saying so). But the vaccines can REDUCE the spread. Even with Delta, recent studies have shown that the vaccinated are still 5 to 6 times less likely to catch the virus, than the non-vaccinated (that's because of those who have what we call sterilizing immunity, with a high titer of neutralizing antibodies that zap the virus right away and doesn't give to the virus the opportunity to replicate - which is not achieved for all vaccine recipients, but is achieved for many). Also, when a booster is given, the original protection is restored or is even better than the initial one (neutralizing antibody titers go up 10 to 11 times with boosters.

So, don't underestimate the vaccines. They are wonderful tools. They can't accomplish miracles (such as, working for an immunocompromised person) and are not 100% efficacious but they are extremely helpful. They are not the only tools. Monoclonal antibodies, and the new kid molnupinavir, seem to be very helpful as well.

 

You don't seem to understand: the fact that so many are willing to crush their fellow citizens at the behest of the government is a bigger problem than Covid vaccine trust.

 

I'm not sure of the numbers since the experts lied to us for months about the spread, and then used those lies to convince citizens to crush their fellow citizens. Like I said they would, when all of them were saying we can't do mandates in America.

 

Politicians, political pundits, news anchors, celebrities, etc. used rhetoric for months that blamed the unvaccinated for the spread. That rhetoric doesn't reflect the known efficacy levels (according to your post).

They should have been sufficiently shamed by their false rhetoric that was used to harm their fellow citizens, but nope, ofc they double down on blame, and move on to hospitalizations. Are they lying about that too? Probably, who knows now?

 

that is your choice, the place you work for made their choice

 

No, that was your choice to allow your government to lie in order to justify your oppression of your fellow citizens. You are the one choosing to take an action. Your confidence in your righteous cause allows you to crush your fellow citizens without compassion. Nothing new in human history...

 

I don't support a mandate, so not sure how that was my choice

I do support people getting the vaccine though and think it's the right thing to do

I do not support businesses deciding if you can buy birth control though your insurance either, but business get to decide too

I don't support taxis\ubers denying blind people with guide dogs or bakeries denying wedding cakes

I do not support laws restricting Abortion like in Texas either, your body, your choice

I am consistent in my views, are you?

 

Well good on yah for not making a choice to oppress your fellow citizens. That's my reflex response to those who say that's my choice. I'm not making a choice! I'm just sitting here. The ones making a choice are those making the choice to oppress.

 

you're making a choice to get vaccinated or not, we all are making that choice

 

Let's say someone has been living off the grid in Alaska, and hasn't seen anyone in 2 years. You show up at their cabin and demand they make a choice on something. They tell you to kick rocks. Would it be accurate for you to assess they made a choice on the matter under your consideration, or did they simply not participate in your scenario because you assumed you were righteous enough to demand he make a choice in the first place?

 

I'm sorry did I miss something? Did Joe Biden, Fauci, joy beihar, joy reid, Zuckerberg, etc., go on a 6 month coordinated campaign to demonize blind people with guide dogs, that eventually escalated to the point that Uber drivers were being fined for allowing those with guide dogs a ride?

 

Yes, politicians and news anchors/celebrities lie. It's not new. I do blame them for it, and for squandering public trust, which is a big asset to have in a pandemic. Yes, it is absolutely mind-boggling that the American people got fed confusing and often wrong information. No wonder that by now, nobody trusts anybody. Trust is earned. When it's squandered, it's a lot harder to re-earn it.

And it wasn't that difficult to be factual and honest about it. Sure, the virus evolved, and the science around it evolved too (it had to; it wouldn't be good to insist with outdated information) and adapted to the virus' evolution into new strains, but if the CDC, the WHO, the FDA, Fauci, the president (past and current) had always addressed the public with simple and honest truth, including, acknowledging what was not known, and acknowledging what needed to change in view of new information, we would all be a lot more able to trust the information.

Here's a clear-cut example: maybe with good intention, Dr. Fauci lied to the American public, pretending that masks didn't help the wearer, and the CDC sent guidelines to major vendors to avoid selling N95s to the non-healthcare public. The intention maybe was good (to preserve the scarce N95s for the healthcare workforce) but the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Much more important than the good intention, was the fact that it was a lie. Obviously N95s do protect the wearer, and it would have been better to acknowledge this fact and acknowledge the scarcity, and immediately trigger the Defense Production Act to beef up domestic production of high quality N95s. Instead, the public was pushed into wearing almost useless cloth masks. Then, the scarcity resolved, but the CDC took some six months to reverse the guideline, so that smaller American companies making quality N95s couldn't move their production to the market, and got into financial trouble. Meanwhile, Americans continued to wear ineffective masks, including KN95s from China, when the very CDC knew that 60% of them were counterfeit. So, the FDA granted emergency use authorization to KN95s... while its sister agency the CDC was acknowledging a high proportion of counterfeits. How incompetent was that??? KN95s should be banned, in favor of American-made N95s.

A good chunk of the mask/no-mask conundrum stems from unclear, confusing, inaccurate, wrong, lying, flip-flopping information we were given. Given that we were pushed into ineffective masks, no wonder a lot of people then doubted the necessity of mask wearing, which failed to move the pandemic needles. I mean, if you wear a counterfeit KN95 that doesn't filter zip, no wonder that guidelines to mask up did not seem to bring down the contagion.

It's a shame. I subscribe to certain foreign satellite TV channels to keep my language skills sharp, and in other countries the message was loud and clear - N95 masks are the way to go; if you can't find them, good alternatives are surgical grade facemasks with bracing devices to enhance the seal; a good mask worn right will protect both you and your community/loved ones, but not 100%, so remain prudent. Period. One simple, steady, consistent message, which was then endorsed by the public (certain countries had 98% of their population wearing high-quality masks).

Over here on PF, I try my best to counter the misinformation, but that's a drop of water in an ocean. The CDC had the responsibility of leading a frank, factual, accurate public information campaign and they grossly failed us on this.

 

DeBlasio and the rest DO NOT CARE what the US Constitution says. They do not care about the rule of law.

They place themselves above the law.

 

This has nothing to do with protecting people. This has to do with protecting money spent on hospitalizations. If the Jab hurts some people, the health industry could care less because the person accepting the jab takes on all responsibility. Preferably, I prefer to wait for longer term studies of possible effects or no effects from people who accept the jab before I take it. Lets say I get an inflamed or enlarged heart due to my body not accepting the jab, then I am held liable. I prefer to wait and see how this affects other people before I hurt myself. 12 months testing is not enough time to determine long term affects. Especially, since according to nurses in Michigan of which those who are having medical problems are all vaccinated and the hospitals are now overwhelmed with vaccinated people having new medical issues. I am not against the jab, but would like to make sure it is safe and there is zero proof it is safe for everyone. Each persons body can react differently. I already had covid once and see no need since I have anti-bodies. Why should I be forced to take a shot that could kill or cause disabilities when I already have anti-bodies and I cannot sue anyone for being forced to take something I don't need if I get hurt? Vaccinated people are the ones spreading Covid as much as unvaccinated.