He also swung a whip at the temple merchants while he was chasing them away.. Now that's service, to his own desires to suicide and test the messiah myth. He failed the test and never came back to rule the Jews. Jesus' morals on no divorce for women and substitutionary punishment policies are quite immoral. Right? Care to discuss those? Regards DL
The right wing loony side is quite populated with brain dead literalists. I like allegorical thinking. Can I take it that you think Yahweh and Jesus are also allegories and mythical characters? They would not mix allegories with reality. Right? Regards DL
In what sense? I'm challenging the OP with other interpretations of scripture, not necessarily interpretations that I in particular agree with. Then again, I'm not sure what it is you think I said that is close to what you think. Personally, I find any immoralities in the Bible irrelevant. They serve perhaps to point out that we don't have a good justification for believing the Bible in the first place, but that's true even without the immoralities.
I understand it is immoral, and your lack of an argument against shows you are lying. You have an immoral double moral standard, as you just proved. If you had a moral understanding, you would have put it. Regards DL
Well most people including most Christians are going to hell if that's what you mean. But God has promised to save a "remnant" of humanity.
I don't see why not. Parts of the Bible are historically accurate, so clearly its not all allegory, and if any of it is allegory, then clearly its a mix. No, I dont believe the existence of God or Jesus is allegorical. Some aspects of their nature probably is, and in what state or form they currently exist is certainly not known to us, but I believe they are (or at the very least were) distinct entities with perception and will.
Assuming that the Creator is an advanced intelligent being, is all that the kind of low quality mentation and influence that such a being could be expected to generate and promote? Dogma comes from people, not God.
I think I have pointed this out to you several times in the past. However, I am more than happy to challenge people on my "side" if they say something I don't think holds up.
In some scriptures, true. Yet other scriptures say that it is god's will that none of us be lost. Any loss of a creation/soul to a creator who wants to keep it, shows a god who cannot do as he wills. If he can't, why call the loser God? Regards DL
Ditto. I have no problem with confirming, or not, any of my thinking as compared to any side. I challenge many Christians to moral discussions and you might have noted how quickly they run from those. That says more than anything I might write. Regards DL
If you were a God and wanted to be relevant to people, why would you hide in a book of allegories? People could not know you, and thus you would have no just cause to punished or rewarded. A universalist god is moral. Yahweh/Jesus are demonstrably not, or they would forgive all for all. Regards DL
Then he is a piss poor creator and should punish himself and not us for the garbage he is creating. Right? Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”. That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy." But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem. If all sin by nature, then the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin. That being the case, for God to punish us for following the instincts and natures he put in us would be quite wrong. Psalm 51:5 "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." Regards DL
Jesus really only commented on what that particular guy needed to do, not what someone who has no possessions should do. I only referred to that verse to prove the point that according to the Bible, there are things you can do to affect your chance of being saved. The fact that it might not apply to everyone seems to me to be beside the point.
Do you see the following applying to what Jesus said above about possessions? John 6 ; 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. The possessions I think Jesus was talking about was mental possessions or ideas. Regards DL
The prelates at the temple were selling sacrifices, which they were also stating as a requirement for salvation. That's about as evil as it gets. But, it is an interesting instance. I do not believe that this event was the death knell for Jesus. He was a constant thorn in the side of both the Romans and Jew for both religious and secular reasons. The news of Jesus upsetting the apple cart was seen as an issue by leaders in Rome, nearly 1,500 miles away. I think you aren't quite right about your claims about divorce. Jews quote the Bible AGAINST those who strive to deny abortion through the law. As an atheist, I think it is important to attempt to understand what Christianity and other religions are actually saying. Attacking Christianity on details of their beliefs just doesn't seem like a useful path to ... anything.
The Bible says we are all sinners, separated from God, destined to remain so unless we accept the gift of salvation through Jesus Christ who took our sin upon himself, for us...in the greatest act of love. The Catholic Church doesn't teach that? I thought you were catholic?
Good point. But, there is also the issue of what you will go to HELL for if you DON'T ask forgiveness. Just ONE example: In Matthew 25:31-end Jesus states that those who fail to walk the walk will go to hell - even if they asked forgiveness for sins and profess their belief in Christ. So, how many Christians are asking forgiveness for failing to search out those in need in poor houses, in hospitals, in prisons and providing for their needs? According to Matthew, Jesus states that failure IS a mortal sin.
Even better, we should join forces toward meeting the challenge of the level of need in this world today. This should be a general objective that Christians can buy into.
As it says, even demons believe. James 2:19 (CEV) ="You surely believe there is only one God. That’s fine. Even demons believe this, and it makes them shake with fear." Remember, the Bible is based on an ancient ethnocentric Middle Eastern Jewish religious fairy tale. It is all about them and no one else. So, their God could have only given them "souls" and made everyone else soulless. That fits with the story about the potter who makes different pots for different things. Romans 9:21 (CEB) = "Doesn’t the potter have the power over the clay to make one pot for special purposes and another for garbage from the same lump of clay?" Remember what the Jesus character promised his apostles in Matthew 19:28 (CEB) = Jesus said to them, “I assure you who have followed me that, when everything is made new, when the Human One sits on his magnificent throne, you also will sit on twelve thrones overseeing the twelve tribes of Israel. In the Bible, only Jews are classified as humans and men. And notice in Matthew 19:28, only the twelve tribes of Israel matter. Everyone else is excluded.
