I graduated high school decades ago. Your anti religion screed has been debunked over and over again.
Nothing about it has been debunked. Any particular reason why you're going out of your way to insult a Bible believer? Or is it just something you do for giggles?
You'd think. But actually, when you read about people's reactions to reports of miracles today, you discover that people are so skeptical they still wouldn't have believed it. "No, father Abraham," he said, "but if someone rises from the dead and goes to them, they will repent." "If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead." I can totally believe that dozens of people might have risen from their graves in ancient times and militant atheists would still not have believed any miracle had occurred. They'd just come up with some explanation to explain it away, like think it was a fraud, or false rumors not worth their time. Or maybe those people weren't actually really dead.
It's interesting how fast these discussions go off topic it's impossible to really carry on any coherent discussion.
I think it’s normal to disbelieve a claim that someone has risen from the dead. The boundaries of death are well known. Could someone return from the dead? Yes. It happens. Typically when it happens there are good reasons. For example in times past it was common enough to bury people who appear dead but are not that escape mechanisms have been created for caskets. Some people are clinically dead for short periods of time but revival attempts succeed. Generally speaking though, someone who is clinically dead for three days does not come back. I know there are events that can happen naturally that I cannot explain but, this story is not there to describe an unexplained natural cause. The biblical story is not meant to say someone was revived after being prematurely pronounced dead. It’s there to describe an event that defies the laws of nature and shows the supernatural power of God. That kind of extraordinary claim requires some extraordinary evidence. Even if I believed in the supernatural, how do I know this claim of Jesus breaking the laws of nature is for real considering the claims of other religions? After all, the base claim of Christianity is that there is no other route to salvation other than through the sacrifice of Christ.
The story about the resurrection of the Jesus character is a metaphor for the resurrection of Israel to its former glory after being nothing. It ties in with all of the other stories about Israel becoming a powerhouse among the nations and having them as slaves. At the time the Jesus story takes place the Jews were at the bottom of the heap and they ended up getting beaten to a pulp a couple times within 60 or so years by the Romans. The story also has links to the ramblings of Ezra in 2 Esdras 6:55-59 (CEB) =55 “I have said all these things before you, Lord, because you have said that you created the oldest age[a] for our sake. 56 You have said that the other nations born of Adam are nothing, that they are like spit, and you have compared their abundance to a drop from a pitcher. 57 But look now, Lord! These nations that are valued as nothing rule over us and devour us, 58 while we, your people, whom you have called your oldest offspring, your one and only child, those who are zealous for you, your dearest ones, are handed over to them. 59 If the world was created for our sake, why don’t we possess our world as an inheritance? How long will this situation last?” The resurrection theme is also found in Ezekiel chapter 37 (28 verses) =https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel+37&version=CEB Verses 1-14 illustrate the connection to the resurrection of the Jesus character = 37 The Lord’s power overcame me, and while I was in the Lord’s spirit, he led me out and set me down in the middle of a certain valley. It was full of bones. 2 He led me through them all around, and I saw that there were a great many of them on the valley floor, and they were very dry. 3 He asked me, “Human one, can these bones live again?” I said, “Lord God, only you know.” 4 He said to me, “Prophesy over these bones, and say to them, Dry bones, hear the Lord’s word! 5 The Lord God proclaims to these bones: I am about to put breath in you, and you will live again. 6 I will put sinews on you, place flesh on you, and cover you with skin. When I put breath in you, and you come to life, you will know that I am the Lord.” 7 I prophesied just as I was commanded. There was a great noise as I was prophesying, then a great quaking, and the bones came together, bone by bone. 8 When I looked, suddenly there were sinews on them. The flesh appeared, and then they were covered over with skin. But there was still no breath in them. 9 He said to me, “Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, human one! Say to the breath, The Lord God proclaims: Come from the four winds, breath! Breathe into these dead bodies and let them live.” 10 I prophesied just as he commanded me. When the breath entered them, they came to life and stood on their feet, an extraordinarily large company. 11 He said to me, “Human one, these bones are the entire house of Israel. They say, ‘Our bones are dried up, and our hope has perished. We are completely finished.’ 12 So now, prophesy and say to them, The Lord God proclaims: I’m opening your graves! I will raise you up from your graves, my people, and I will bring you to Israel’s fertile land.13 You will know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and raise you up from your graves, my people. 14 I will put my breath[a] in you, and you will live. I will plant you on your fertile land, and you will know that I am the Lord. I’ve spoken, and I will do it. This is what the Lord says.” BTW, in the Bible, only Jews are regarded as humans and men. Gentiles are animals, beasts, dogs, swine, serpents, donkeys, etc. edit typo
Regarding Ezekiel chapter 37 in Post #56, did you get the connection to the events in verses 7, 11-14 and the earthquake in Matthew 27:51 and the zombies appearing in Jerusalem in Matthew 27:52-53? Matthew 27:51-53 (CEB) =“51 Look, the curtain of the sanctuary was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split, 52 and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised. 53 After Jesus’ resurrection they came out of their graves and went into the holy city where they appeared to many people.“ Ezekiel 37:7 (CEB) = “7 I prophesied just as I was commanded. There was a great noise as I was prophesying, then a great quaking, and the bones came together, bone by bone.“ Ezekiel 37:11-14 = ”11 He said to me, “Human one, these bones are the entire house of Israel. They say, ‘Our bones are dried up, and our hope has perished. We are completely finished.’ 12 So now, prophesy and say to them, The Lord God proclaims: I’m opening your graves! I will raise you up from your graves, my people, and I will bring you to Israel’s fertile land.13 You will know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and raise you up from your graves, my people. 14 I will put my breath[a] in you, and you will live. I will plant you on your fertile land, and you will know that I am the Lord. I’ve spoken, and I will do it. This is what the Lord says.” That is what the Jesus resurrection is about. It is not about an actual person being restored to life after death. That doesn't happen.
Nope. I'm definitely a Bible-believer who doesn't like the false gospel the Papists have added. Is your being a priest the reason why you take so much offense you're unwilling to write rational arguments?
Let's start with this: "The Papists actually believe that when a good Catholic dies, they go straight to Purgatory - including the Popes." Incorrect. Purgatory. If it exists, is for people who have died in the friendship of God but still have some sin to atone for. If you knew anything about the Catholic faith you'd know that confession is a part of every Mass. "Yep, they didn't tell you that did they?" They didn't tell you because it's not true. "In addition, Papists believe that anyone who masturbates or misses one of their meetings will go to hell if they don't get absolution from a priest. Hence why a doctor hand-pumped the heart of a president long after he was dead so that they could say he received absolution in time. I've seen Papists leave their jobs at work to rush to the priest to save themselves from hell." Also untrue. In RCC theology there are venial sins and mortal sins. Some sins are worse than others. Do you know what does cause people to go to hell? Bigotry and hatred toward their fellow man.
If you believe in Christianity the only way to salvation is through Christ so are we Damned that depends.
I think it is cruel to lie to people and tell them that they have been created ill and commanded to be well. I have asked many Christians what they did to be condemned and why they need a savior, but get silence for my answer. I think most Christians know they are being lied to and do not care. I do know and feel sorry for those who believe their religion's lie. Regards DL
Do you apply that good moral position to Jesus? Meaning that your salvation is your own work, and you cannot use Jesus as your savior. Right? Regards DL
I think you miss read your bible. It says the opposite and that the many take the wide road to hell while the few take the narrow path to heaven. The exact opposite of what scriptures say, which is that it is god's will that we all be saved. Only the faithless believers will doubt that, as well as the intelligent non-believers who are already thinking better than Christians. Regards DL
Reading your whole post, I see we are not as far apart as I thought. You have been holding out on me. Yahweh chose to make Jesus a barbaric human sacrifice as a show of good judgement. How in hell a god without blood would develop such a taste is beyond me. Especially when the bible rails against killing humans, of half breed chimeras like Jesus. Regards DL
You miss-understand and have forgotten why you sing of Adam's sin as a happy fault and necessary to god's plan. You also ignore that god controls our hearts, according to the bible, and decides for us who will believe or not, by his giving us his grace or not. Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design? Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link. Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us. The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures. If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith? Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm? Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please? I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed. Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did. What is your choice of those two options? Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars. I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians. What do you think is the truth? Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe? Regards DL
Are you a father? Would you send your child to die to fill your own demand of a human sacrifice, or would you do the right thing and step up yourself? IOW, are you as immoral and a poor parent like the god you adore? Regards DL
Adam and Eve are said to be children of god. Jesus said that we are all children of god and gods in our own rite. Yahweh wanted to deny A & E the knowledge that would make us equal and better than the genocidal Yahweh. After they succeeded in becoming as gods in the knowing of good and evil, Yahweh murdered them by neglect by locking away the tree of life that would have kept A & E alive. Regards DL
Thats just more preference for literal interpretation over alegorical, something far more common in critics of religion than it is with the religious. The creation story (and thus necessarily the 'original sin' story) is not so literally interpreted by many, including me. It seems to make more sense to me that suffering and mortality are a necessary part of our advancement. If we had chosen to stay as Gods pets in the garden of eden, we would be fat dumb and happy for all eternity, but never amounting to more than that. Suffering and toil and risk are not a punishment for choosing to become enlightened, but rather are a necessary part of the path that leads to it.
