If you refuse the vaccine, you don't matter. It's the people you infect that matter!

I don't recall that idea being expressed by Trump or anyone else but that describes one of the theories during the initial pre vaccine stages before humanity was saved by those same vaccines. Who was it that fast tracked them? Who got respirators made till they were just warehoused when New York was hit so hard initially? Trump fought hard and well and it was not Trump who urged caution about the vaccines when they came on the scene. It is painful to watch a Trump speech, almost as painful as a Biden meeting but the man did a remarkable job in his Presidency on a number of issues. He was not a politician which is what recommended him in the first place.

 

The attitude I reference was indeed Trump's attitude initially. He changed it very quickly once others made their shock at its callousness known but I maintain he kept it implicitly as nothing else explains his stubborn refusal to do what other nations were doing at the time with notable success.

If you need brain surgery do you contact a garbageman? Trump was indeed remarkable but not in any desirable way.

 

You're confusing vaccination with eradication. Vaccination of nearly everyone everywhere enabled us to eradicate smallpox entirely since we could wipe the disease out in its human hosts; and many of the other diseases you mention were eradicated in most of the Western world in the same way. I'm sure you're aware how the remaining live samples of smallpox are the basis of several nightmare scenarios of biological warfare. We are not immune to smallpox or any disease in the way you describe.

People who refuse the shot for horse pucky reasons and then occupy beds in our hospitals are equivalent to someone who shits in the street and then wants to be treated for cholera.

 

So your argument is pure semantics. Not interested...

 

You didn't answer the question. Did you not understand it, or were you just feeling kinda "left out"?

 

Why do you want to draw such distinctions between people who think like you do and those who don't? I hope you don't get Covid and I hope I don't either if I haven't already had it, but being vaccinated doesn't make me better or more entitled than someone who hasn't been. It doesn't do that for you either.

 

Which means that different diseases behave differently. No SARS-type disease has ever been eradicated. They just evolve. Nor has there ever been an expectation that this one would be altogether (to use the poster's terminology) "stopped".

 

In that we agree.

 

Yes, but not everybody can understand the distinction. To a layperson, with no medical or emergency or immunology experience, a "vaccine" is something that **prevents** the vaccinated person from getting <whatever they are vaccinated against>.

I was surprised when people were having hissy fits about Jill using the title "Dr." Until that moment in time, it never occurred to me that everyone didn't know that the title is related to the level of education one has completed, not specific to just the medical field.

So, I try to remind myself that it's not fair to assume that everyone knows what I know and I don't know everything another person knows. I'm still stunned that people are taking medical advice from politicians and when you consider that, Golem, I think you can easily understand how important it is to help nudge them in the right direction to educate themselves. It's sad that it took a pandemic for people to do that but there is no such thing as too much knowledge so maybe something good has come from all this.

 

Really? I admit I hadn't realized people could be that ignorant. I guess that explains it.

I try to do that with the handful of posters who are open to debating facts on their merits. Unfortunately the most posters on the right are only here to politicize every single aspect of human knowledge. They will just deny facts no matter how many times you slap them in the face with them. Before Trump they used to be a minority in these forums. Now they are, by far, the majority. Trump's most everlasting statement was the one about not believing your own eyes and ears. They took it to heart.

 

That's what vaccines do. As far as I can see the Covid vaccine all about making money off of peoples fears.

 

You confuse vaccines with Trump.

 

Looking at that post, it's difficult to see the ponies from the piles. "Our" hospitals? My paid up health insurance says I have a right to a bed in a hospital if I need one. If it turns out that there are some nasty long term side effects, please suffer in silence, the rest of us don't want to hear it, why should we care. Ya'all volunteered to be medical guinea pigs

 

I support anyone's right to be a volunteer medical crash test dummy.

 

And I support your right to stay home and die without taking up an ICU I may need if I have an heart attack, Given the environment we live in now you nearly are injecting yourself with live COVID just by going outside. If you are vaccinated you don't need to worry but if you are unvaccinated then you have done whatever happens to yourself to show your solidarity with Trumpist talking points even the Bronze Deity himself repudiated years ago. I don't want to die just to make that silly of an argument for anyone.

 

If I decide to not get vaccinated and not wear a mask I will do so and I will not stay home. Don't like it? Too bad, you stay home.

 

If you get a heart attack it's likely caused by a "vaccine" you voluntarily ingested caused it. Then you should be rejected by hospitals and turned over to big pharma for dissection.

 

Your argument is pure semantics. You're labeling gene therapy as a vaccine and it isn't. That's actually the trucks or the linchpin to your entire argument that's why you're running away and trying to disguise your fear as disinterest in semantics.

 

That was a direct answer to your question just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not.

 

If you are vaccinated, you do no have, and cannot spread. the virus.
If you have the virus and can spread the virus, you have not been vaccinated.

 

It's a vaccine. It stimulates the production of anti-bodies. How it does it is irrelevant. But you can call it whatever the hell you want. You can call it "topsy turvy Covid", for all I care.

 

You should be refused admission to a hospital if you get sick from COVID but that will not happen since Doctors take their oaths seriously. Therefore staying home if you become sick with COVID becomes a moral obligation on your part

 

In name only.

If it isn't very effective it does

And you can keep being a guinea pig and protecting your billionaire corporate overlords.

 

That's not what the word 'immune' means. To be immune means that you are not susceptible.

Herd immunity refers to the likelihood that you will come into contact with an infected person. The more people in the herd who become immune, the smaller the chance that you will be exposed to a carrier.

I have not heard anybody speak of a population of immune people. If individuals cannot become immune, then herd immunity is not achievable.