If you refuse the vaccine, you don't matter. It's the people you infect that matter!

Vaccines and masks do MITIGATE the spread, not a whole lot but enough that we shouldn't have many millions sick all at once. What they don't do is stop the spread entirely, like a lot of conservatives seem to think they have to do or they might as well not be in place at all

There has been no "halt" to our economy. It has in fact grown faster than at any time since 1984. This is largely because many millions of us are not dying in hospitals.

It seems we reached herd immunity now and the CDC has just today modified mask requirements and may end them soon. This is NO THANKS WHATSOEVER to the anti vaxers and similar conservatives who want to kill us all. Trump is still disappointed that the disease was not allowed to simply "burn itself out" by killing most people over 65

HOW can any rational human being be conservative?

 

OIC. Agreed. I commented without being entirely cognizant of the referent. Sorry.

 

It goes with being rational

 

I'll rephrase. How can any rational human being follow an ideology that apparently wants to kill them?

 

AU, did you reread that before you clicked "post reply"?

 

I don't know, how do you do it?

 

BS. They don't mitigate the spread. They mitigate the severity. If individual immunity is unobtainable, then herd immunity is too. Nothing that has been done has mitigated the spread of this virus in any meaningful way. One of the most isolated and protected persons on the planet, queen Elizabeth, recently contracted it. This virus is running its course in spite of our feeble attempts to control it.

 

No, the vaccine mitigates the severity. Herd immunity means that a substantial part of the population is immune and the vaccine is achieving that. Individual immunity has little relationship to herd immunity except in how it is brought about. Again, masks and hygiene don't mitigate the spread much but it is some.

 

Any ideology I follow doesn't want to kill me by urging that I don't take every step I can to protect myself from a deadly disease

 

<Raising hand> I'm in IL and we are required to get tested within 72 hours of a scheduled surgery. The surgeon called me at 6A to tell me that my outpatient surgery was canceled because I tested positive.

* I live alone.
* I sheltered-in-place from the Day the first positive happened in IL. It didn't even get to my town for about 4-5 weeks later.
* I pay someone to run my errands and do my laundry.
* Wore gloves and washed all the groceries that can be washed or wiped things down with a disinfectant.
* I no longer drive (I telecommute) so no exposure out-and-about.
* I no longer socialize with my neighbors (pre-COVID).
* I have really bad asthma so I wore gloves when getting my mail and putting it in the microwave for 60 seconds.
* I only went out to get my mail around midnight to avoid any neighbors that can't pay attention to the rules.
* My asthma is worse when the guys come through with their mowers 2/week so my windows weren't even open.
* I literally went through a test site drive-thru and had NO contact with the tester or any supplies except the swab.

The one person that does my shopping is literally the ONLY person that has been near me (in 7-8 months) and she tested negative.

It might sound crazy but I don't believe COVID spreads the way they are claiming because there is no Earthly explanation for how I contracted it. I don't know how it's spread but it's clearly not **just** proximity to infected people or objects they've handled.

 

I don't think that is a conservative position.

 

Who are these immune people you speak of? I keep hearing about folks getting it multiple times, vaccinated or not.

If individual immunity is unobtainable, so is herd immunity. I can't understand how you could say they aren't related.

 

Conservatives tell me not to get vaccinated since the vaccine may be worse than the disease.

 

You mean some conservatives? Actually I think Conservatives insist on retaining the right to make that decision for themselves and for you to have the same right.

 

Herd immunity is a statistical concept. It simply says that more than some percentage of that population is immune, it doesn't refer to any one specific person

 

True, but it is MOST of them

 

But they do. Like vaccines do. But that's a different topic. You may find in this forum many threads that explain to you how and why vaccines work. This is not one of them.

 

If no one person can become immune, which appears to be the case, then herd immunity is not possible. I have not seen any indication, in popular media, that anyone is immune. If no one is immune, then herd immunity is not possible. Every indication I have seen is that people, vaccinated or not, can be infected multiple times, and that no one is immune.

 

What in the world gave you the idea that that's what they're for?

 

Sure vaccines do make a difference. mRNA isn't a vaccine it's gene therapy, it certainly does something but not the same thing as a vaccine. Most commonly it reduces symptoms. The j&j vaccine is a traditional vaccine. As in not mRNA therapy.

I know how they work that's how I know mRNA therapy isn't the same thing.

But you can go on in your media induced stupor I won't be joining you.

 

Continued spread after administration... Duh.

 

If by immune you mean totally invulnerable to infection by the disease then no, there is no such immunity to Covid or just about any other disease I know of. Immunity means that the body's immune defenses can fight the disease off in fairly short order not that there is some sort of force field surrounding you which prevents the microbe from entering your body at all.

 

Most anti vax conservatives I dealt with were Trumpers and Trumpers were almost all followers of Trump's early opinion which was that the disease should run its course and we would get herd immunity by killing off all those that the disease could affect fatally, Since these were mainly old people and the severely immuno-compromised they simply didn't care about them. They thought that the economy would be paralyzed by the quarantining and shutdowns required but that society would conversely benefit by ridding itself of the old and the weak if no such measures were taken

 

I'm not speaking for that poster but the name is a misnomer. All of us that went to school in America and/or served in the military received several vaccines and the diseases they help protect us from are mostly eradicated.

There are some anti-vax\selective vax parenting groups that deliberately expose their child(ren) to some of the diseases so their natural immunity kicks in and they don't suffer worse health consequences should they contract the disease later in life.

 

I'm sorry but all my life immunity meant protected. We got Polio shots so we wouldn't get Polio and guess what, we didn't. We also don't see kids with jaws the size of oranges anymore either as Mumps is a rarity. We get vaccines for pretty much all the so called childhood diseases and we seldom see any of them.

If you go back to the beginning of the Covid battle and look at expectations for the vaccines I believe public opinion expected them to behave like a vaccine and grant immunity. We have officials ruining lives because people refuse to take a vaccine that has been repurposed and relegated to the classification of a Vicks Salve, a mitigator of symptoms. That was never what was expected by health officials anywhere or by those of us who jumped in line for the first available shots. The vaccines have largely failed but it turns out the threat was never quite what it was made out to be. Consevatively, 98% of Covid cases survive with no long term ill effects.

I'm a 3 shot veteran of the war and will be a 4 when it is available but nothing is more frustrating than listening to sanctimonious charges that someone refusing the shot is killing us all. Horse pucky.