How can homosexuality not be a perversion?

This is absolutely and totally irrelevant.

We know from Lawrence v Texas that what consenting adults do in privacy is THEIR business, not yours, not the government's, not the local religious prelates, or anyone else's.

 

I would say that it hasn't. All of the forms that have been still are, including ghost marriages. Polyandry is practiced in multiple countries (I think there is now upwards of 100 cultures that practice it). Polygyny is still around, both the abusive and the egalitarian forms. Polygamy (with 2+ of each spouse types) have been and still are a thing. We've just been the victims of a religious cover-up trying to pretend that none of these other forms have ever existed.

 

There is no objective truth about it. It's a social construct. Every word you use to try to describe marriage is subjective opinion based. There is not and never has been any one objective true form.

 

Oh gods, here comes the "principle" arguments again!

 

That's alright. You'll recover from it eventually.

 

And this is why we need a ROFL reaction.

 

I've had to fire employees for their activities against other employees who are LGBTQ.

There is behavior that is absolutely NOT acceptable.

This happens among straights, too. There are numerous cases in the news of aggression based on sex where the perp gets canned.

That is, it is not just a "same sex" issue at all.

Yes, we have evil and free speech in our society, promoting violence and discrimination against US citizens who happen to be LGBTQ - obviously through no intent of their own.

But, simply accepting that is anti-American and totally morally disgusting.

 

NO. There is ABSOLUTELY ZERO DOUBT about the biological foundation LGBTQ and sexual orientation.

It is NOT something an individual can "control". And, I'd point out that as puberty progresses all sexual orientations are looking for fulfillment, including risky behavior, etc.

There are many sources of depression that are directly connected to how one is accepted in society. If one is assaulted by Christians and ostracized, it makes suicidal depression more likely.

This issue IS the bigger issue. It is a source of bullying, ostracization, and hate, leading to THAT being the experience rather than education being the experience.

School has to be a safe place. And, it is NOT a safe place if it includes Christian hate based on factors that can not be changed - color of skin, gender, sexual orientation, physical appearance, etc., etc.

 

I think this reality really bothers more socially conservative types.

Much of my engagement in this discussion is about figuring out why.

Now they will tell you because God but that's an excuse. It's often an excuse when faced with pressure to move away from what is traditional.

So I don't buy it as a rationale or a reason behind something I mean in reality nobody cares if a teacher teaches their kid about evolution for instance nobody cares if the teacher is atheists aren't Jewish or Muslim. Even though for a Christian those are all equally bad because they all reject Christ it's perfectly okay. So God saying so is more of an excuse. There are people that said God said we can have slaves or God said let people were inferior or God said this or that.

And I love the lyrics and that song where they say people will all argue all night long about a god they've never seen but never fails to sign with them.

I think the deeper issue is that If people really don't have control over whether or not they're gay than anybody can be gay.

us homosexuality homosexuals in the western world doesn't seem to be a real big issue not like it was.

And I don't think it was ever quite the issue that it is and certain African countries or the Middle East.

Even like that Steven Anderson guy or the Fred Phelps character they're not really hating just a hate. They're doing it to provoke. I remember a few years back there was a and you all remember himself the pulse nightclub shooting and Steven Anderson as well as a few of his other buddies decided they were going to go down there and say that but it's a good thing that that happened and the whole point was to get these people to pay them up so they could say how bad they are and get more followers into their particular cult. That is kind of what what's bro Baptist Church was doing though I think they were involved in a lawsuit scam as well because they would go pick on people whose family members died so that they would be assaulted so that they could sue. They seem to drop off the face of the earth when states started forbidding them from doing their schtick.

I don't think that was the idea behind the Florida thing. There is an account on Twitter called libs of tiktok and what they were doing was showing teachers saying how they're going to indoctrinate their students I'm not sure if these all were teachers or if they would actually do what they were talking about but the fact that they could have bothered Florida.

I would be lying if I said I didn't believe they would say physiological component to it.

I have been with women in an attempt to become sexual with them in the anatomy simply didn't work.

For a long time I thought there was something wrong with me but an entirely plutonic touch from a man anatomy worked I'll leave that to your imagination.

I'm not sure that that's something that can't be addressed per the Florida bill. It seems to focus on lawsuits aimed at teachers who indoctrinate. I'm talking about this person's family situation would be no different than talking about this person's religion or that person's home country and I remember doing all of that in school.

I'm not sure that it even exists.

I've been out member of the LGBT since I was 27, and I have seen a lot of internal disagreement. Really fascinating to me are the gay guys that don't want to date bisexual guys. I think there's more hatred between those two groups and there is between Fred Phelps and the gay pride parade. And it's really because they're familiar with one another familiarity breeds contempt.

And then I've gotten some hate I never had heard this word being used as a pejorative except for what's known in the community as a gay church lady. I was accused of being heteronormative.

I think he expects that same thing you do. Consider Chick-fil-A's response to same-sex marriage.

I think what it is is people don't like when a company they do business with holds different views than they do.

I find the commercial support for LGBT rights too little too late. It's not brave anymore it's safe. When Nabisco comes out as supporting the same sex marriage 3 years after they stopped needing to who cares you're just doing it to make a buck. I find that heartless and rather silly but I have fits a marketing gimmick that works than work it.

 

I agree with pretty much everything you've said here.

In this last, I would say that "anybody can be gay" is true in the sense that "anybody can be female" or "anybody can be male". Body features and brains mostly match one of two patterns, but a range of other combinations can occur.

Well, I have no idea of the validity of the tiktok thing. That sounds like pure politics to me.

As for Nabisco, I'd just say that I'm glad to see people learning - even if Nabisco's act was simply a matter of changing to match customers who are changing in their understanding.

 

talk is cheap.

I was just trying to give you some thoughtful insight from a gay perspective wasn't trying to start an argument with you.

Depression doesn't require a source. Sometimes people can be depressed just because. Ostracization can be a component component of it but many people are ostracized for all sorts of reasons that don't commit suicide.

And here is that gay man's perspective again. I'm trying to give you an insight in not trying to argue.

I didn't get much crap from Christians in fact when I came out I was a practicing Catholic. I spoke to other members of the church about it. Many of them responded with Leviticus stuff and left it at that. My worst enemy in it was myself. I didn't experience a quarter of the homophobia from outside as I've inflicted on myself. I felt very self conscious and very judge everywhere I went. I felt so deeply alone. I was doing it to myself. I was afraid of how people would view me after they knew. When you hate yourself it feels like the world hates you too. And I'm not sure if that was something external.

I've spent a lot of time reflecting on this. I married a man from a Mormon family that basically told him he was dead to them. I've talked with young people and adults about it so figuring it out of very important to me. I hate that out there there could be a boy or a man suffering the way I suffered. I don't want that to happen to anybody

I'm not so sure that's a big issue. It doesn't mean we shouldn't try and reduce it. But I've been out for 13 years and it'll never go away the Christian contingent that says you are an abomination is something you have to learn to accept. I suggest to younger people learn how to give them the finger. They'll never ever EVER accept you. It'll hurt. And they'll do their absolute best to make you feel like you're worthless, look you on the eye and tell you it's out of love.

The ultimate middle finger is to be happy with who you are. If I didn't go through what I went through I couldn't look my beloved family members in the eye with absolute sincerity and say it doesn't matter what you think.

I couldn't look myself in the mirror and say with any sincerity " you're not that bad of a guy".

It always will. Unless you have a Holocaust against Christians they'll always be there. They will always think what they think. You will NEVER be safe from them. But a heart felt " I don't care what you think" can neutralize any effect they can have on you. That's a painful hard lesson to learn but once you do you have defeated them.

One thing I got to do in my life that brings me a bit of joy was getting to take a young man to his first pride parade where the "God says" types were in the minority and nobody really cared about what they had to say.

He told me that it's kind of sad.

We shouldn't protect people from the cruel world we should equip then with the might to survive it.

 

Not to the post I originally responded to.

Nobody agrees with that decision more than I do. I'm a gay man living in Texas

 

I'm just saying there is risky behavior on all sides.

I'd point out that on average, the most stable, long lasting relationships are those between two women.

I certainly didn't mean to imply that there is only one source of depression.

But, being forcefully ostracized IS a known factor in suicide decisions.

I respect that. There is a lot of variety and I don't believe Christians as a whole are evil.

I'm certainly glad your experience has not been horrible.

Sure. We should equip with the might to survive.

But, we should also work to eliminate the source of the threat.

 

Agreed, not even if it's against other types of people.

Definitely not.

I seem to be largely in agreement with you on some fundamental principles. So I'm not posting responses to you too argue in just trying to give a honest thoughtful perspective that you may not really have.

I assume you are not a gay man. If I'm wrong in that assumption no offense was intended.

Such speech is largely just bluffing.

Accept what? That done people aren't going to like you?

You have to if my partner had not accepted that his parents didn't love him anymore he probably would have died

 

Certainly yes, I agree. I wasn't talking about it because it was risky.

This is a difficult thing to communicate. I was talking about young men and boys wanting a definitive answer. It's not something that's easy to communicate to straight people.

When you first have those feelings for the same sex for me at least it was horrifying disgusting of course the first thing I thought about was anal sex. It's normal for a boy to like a girl so people are equipped to guide them through this. When a boy likes a boy... There are no rules, there are no standards. No ideas on what to do with those feelings so you're just blind in it. It's isolating so sometimes boys and young men reach out to someone that can understand and they can fall victim to predators very easily. I've seen that a lot

I would also point out the type of partnership that has the highest instance of domestic violence are relationships between two women.

I do appreciate the effort to try and diminish one that you at least have some control over.

But the best thing you can do, is stand up for what you believe is fair.

Certainly though I think from family it's by far the worst.

The best thing you can do for those people is be their friends. Give them a voice to listen to so they are not completely alone. You don't have to understand, just care.

I never thought you did. But it's important to say it. Christians can be some of the most kind people. I never would have imagined I'd get Evan (my partner) in a church again after what happened to him. But we've found a completely accepting Christian community. I think that is a fast growing thing.

It was what it was. I consider myself extraordinarily lucky to be alive in this time and to have the parents I do.

The best thing to do is be there. The worst thing about it is the loneliness

It's far more important and something you have much more power to do, be there...

 

Thank you I've spent a lot of time thinking about this

What I meant by that is it could be their son or daughter, grandchildren, siblings so forth.

The only thing I can't comprehend is why such a thing would be so bad to them.

One of the only people that was close to me that responded poorly at first was my brother. He seemed rather angry that I was gay. But he got over it quickly. He was actually one of those few people that was there.

It was simply a person that collected stuff from TikTok and presented it to a different audience.

I don't like it it's using my sexuality as a marketing gimmick and it's causing people to be pissed off at me.

 

WHERE in anything I've said did I advocate that we should "beat up and kill 'queers'"...?! All I've said is that any organization, whether a corporation that receives public money or subsidies in one way or another, or a public school, must cease preaching all subjective opinions about sexual behavior and/or 'partnerships' in ANY way!.

There is absolutely no way to reason with your faction! Your side wants to brainwash everyone with YOUR opinions, and that is the way that tyrannical governments project power through propaganda. And who is more impressionable than school-age children? Re-read Orwell's masterpiece, "1984"... or, did you ever even read it in the first place...?

 

Yup... the unfalsifiable belief that gods do not exist. Thus, a religious belief.

You are no less religious than a Christian, dude. Own it.

 

Guys, why can't you just agree with yardmeat? Marriage includes any two people, even dead people, the innate ability to procreate be damned. Marriage is just a State-recognized contract between two friends, no different than friendship (except for having a nifty little certificate from the State and being able to file taxes jointly rather than separately). Again, the innate ability to procreate be damned. Seems like a rather pointless and unnecessary institution, eh?

 

Can't do that which doesn't exist.

 

Wow, now you are claiming that any marriage between any two people who can't procreate is invalid. The moment a woman goes through menopause, instant divorce in gfm world. Lol, you are hilarious. Tell us more about how the talking snake and the magic fruit ruined marriage.

 

Not what I said (or ever said), and you know that full well.

 

So you no longer arguing that the only purpose of marriage is for procreative sex. Weird how you changed your mind.

 

I've never argued such a thing. I am well aware of your proclivity for making schiff up though.

 

Once again a political argument using guesswork and popular myth to generate a contentious position.
Look.
If US high schools are remotely like UK ones, they do not operate like some covert creator of a future population of lefties intent on some longterm cultural revolution.
When I was in US high-school there existed both a PTA and a board of governors who represented the school and the agency of the state which provided finance and oversaw standards by exam result, any issue potentially lawbreaking and any personnel issues since the staff were employees if the state and taxpayers.
Now children do not remain silent about what they learned, did or happened on any day. They tell parents. The parents can talk to the principal, the PTA or request a meeting with one or more governor.
What happens in the classroom is heavily monitored by public and legal surveillance. Teachers do not go into schools in order to subvert the state, prepare a future left leaning country, or prepare a revolution. It is a massive and unsubstantiated conspiracy theory to accuse teachers (exactly who and how many?) of being subversive and dangerous.
As a retired teacher who spent years slogging away at creating interesting lessons on how an author chose language to convey a particular reaction in the reader and whether s/he was successful and why, in order to help children to use effective language themselves TO EXPRESS THEIR OWN OPINIONS AND THOUGJTS, encouraging freedom of thought and expression and how to spot coercive, emotional language that tries to convince them from TV ads to godbotherers to political positions. I spent a lot of time showing them the language traps and how to avoid them, NOT using such stuff on innocent kids.
I admit to getting angry when teachers who work damned hard to liberate young minds to think for themselves, are accused of being some advance left wing troops poisoning and subverting minds.
Use the tools you have if you have concerns about a teacher but enough of these snide suggestions tarring hardworking professionals with some fabricated political brush of your own.
Soon I will be suggesting that right wing technology pros who sell you or fix your computer attach listening devices without your knowing. It is all so much nonsense.