A Very American Coup

Yes, I do care about America's democracy - a bedrock of our form of government.

What form of government do YOU want?

 

I'm continually astonished at Republicans.

You guys talk constantly about defending America.

Then, when an armed team goes after our vice president with stated intent to kill, you claim you could not care less!! In fact, you don't even want to find out who the perps are!!

 

Your stereotypes about not only 70 million US voters, but also all you consider as an enemy of what you call liberal democracy serve as a good confirmation that my "stereotypes" towards a relatively small group of guardian readers are pretty close to the truth.

I am referring precisely to what you wrote here about Islamism, I was reacting precisely to the statements you made. There wasnt a lie in my statement, but if you need to use the term liar in a discussion like that; I wont take you that little pleasure as long as you dont take me mine to just shake my head and see it as a case of "typical Guardian reader". I consider a fair share of them rather as vegans with a feeling of moral high-ground, sniffing from time to time a line of coke not giving a **** how many people die for their lust rather than baby eaters. On the other hand some are "I am vegan, I just eat from time to time meat" kind of guys, so in the end, I am not sure about baby-eaters among "Guardian" readers.

In general its you who is too lazy to distinguish in between all those you characterize as enemies of the liberal Western Democracy. Even in cases in which we agree to label them as such, its nonsense to call them all fascists, when they in fact are no fascists or Islamists when they in fact are no Islamists. Even if there are paralleles and similarities, this simple friend-foe pattern, weakens the own abilities to see and analyze the situation clearly. The extreme American right is very different from fascism (which doesnt mean they are better or worse, when it gets really extreme its another danger).

I am pretty sure I had a discussion with you, in which you were telling you came back from Germany and told about the situation of Turks in Germany or Germans of Turkish origin. If I confuse you with someone else, my mistake.

However, cant you see that very likely many people voted for Trump not to install a fascist leader state, but because they see Western Democracy under attack from the other side? You yourself write in your own comments here one must be careful with immigrants who brought authoritarian values with them. Can't you see that could be a motive for Trump voters as well? You fear conservative Cubans, others fear Ilhan Omar and her Islamist agenda. That some may see academic freedom or freedom of speech under attack by leftist cancel culture or aggressive activists? Some may see e.g. the state of law under attack when politicians demand the conviction for murder in a case of obvious self-defense? I mean of course you cannot, as you are easy with loads of insults and complain about ad-hominem stuff when I simply corrected you with the use of terms you didnt use correctly and labelled you as a Guardian reader.

I think Trump was a necessary counter-attack.

 

That's not an excuse for attempting to bring down democracy.

Claiming that Omar has an "Islamist agenda" is not possibly supportable.

Your "cancel culture" whining is just plain ridiculous. You can say anything you want. In fact, you DID!! Right here!!

Besides that, it is the GOP that is ordering what teachers are allowed to say, labeling books for excluding, and other DIRECT ASSAULTS on both speech and education.

Casting our democracy as a war as you do in your last sentence is just more violent hyperbole. The fact that Americans don't all agree with you, as represented in the polls, is NOT AN EXCUSE for deciding that it's time for a violent takeover of America and the end of our democracy.

Here's an idea: How about encouraging the GOP to come up with policy initiatives that improve America???

 

For people who sympathize with Islamists for sure. "Some people did something" Ilhan Omar is apologetic about Hamas and has no problem to join them in the BDS movement. Its not "possibly" supportable, its obvious. By the way we can widen the perspective and see the whole "squad", the poster girls of the Guardian, will support always and exclusively the enemies of Western Democracies. Its enough when Joe Biden just critizises the Cuban regimes for how they surpressed legitimate protests, that the squad runs wild. Whenever foreign policy comes to regimes like Cuba, Venzuela, Nicaragua, Iran, etc. you will always have them on the side which stands against Western Demodracies.

Its not ridiculous, academic freedom as well as freedom of speech is fundamental for a Western democracy. Whoever wants to stop e.g. biology research or teachings because he claims it to be transphobia attacks Western Democracy at its core. Whoever claims to be protective of Western democracy has to defend it against these people. If necessary with violence.

Of course that is part of cancel culture too. It is a simple backlash.

1. I am no American, I say it from an outside perspective.
2. Of course its the task for both parties, all smaller independent parties and everyone else to come up with good ideas and policy.
3. My point is, that the whole attitude you or Heroclitus here show is ridiculous. You just state that the Republicans and their supporters are fascists and you have to get rid of them and use "Western Democracy" as a punchline to do it. You are unable to see and analyze what the radical left has done in the last decades. Or in your case you even defend it when militant activists may cancel e.g. science when it doesnt deliver the results which fits into you leftist agenda. Salman Rushdie finally really got a knife to his neck in your America.

And the Americans voted 2016 for a president that stood against it. I dont say that the backlash is good, but at some point it had to happen. It is quite obvious what has to happen, when you wanna save Western Democracy, get majorities which are convinced of it and try to find the right equilibrium to half-way balance the interests, that a vast majority can live with the compromises you make.

 

This is just pure hypocrisy.

First, you say free speech is important.

Then, you call for violence against people who don't agree with you on issues such as sexuality, foreign policy and DEMOCRACY!!

If you believe in democracy in the USA, you KNOW that those who attacked our democracy on Jan 6 need to be rooted out and incarcerated - along with those who aided and abetted. That was an assault on a fundamental principle held by every first world nation in the world - and one you claim you support.

If you believe in democracy, you would look to incarcerate those who attempted to have the state of Georgia throw out the ballots of voters and CHOOSE Trump, when the people's vote said he lost.

If you believe in democracy, you would oppose the laws written by Republicans that say that the state may throw out the people's vote if those in office suspect (suspect) there was some sort of irregularity.

If you believe in democracy, you would oppose the gerrymandering that is being used in places like North Carolina to disenfranchise minority populations.

 

The only point at which I call for violence is the point when it comes to the defense of the core of a democracy. The policemen at the Capitol had to use violence e.g. as well. And its funny what you make up "people who dont agree with you". Its very likely I dont agree with the guy who stabbed Salman Rushdie in his neck, but the point is not that I disagree on his taste in desserts, but he poses a threat.

In the end the people who tried to get into the Capitol were about 20 thousand, not 70 million, you just claim to support this violation of democratic principles. I dont know who you are to demand, what I have to do, while you cannot even clearly condemn attacks on academic freedom, freedom of speech, Ilhan Omars Islamist-apologetic policy, the public support of Cuba, Iran, Venezuela by the "squad" (Guardian's poster girls). I am pretty sure you will defend BLM pillaging as well as you are of the opinion that Kyle Rittenhouse should go to jail or to the gas chamber for murder, knowing that this is a clear example of self-defense.

Again, the whole agenda of the radical left wing of the Democrats stands against Western democracy, so does the Guardian. The difference is, you just try to neglect all these misdevelopments and try to paint Trumps attacks as out of nowhere. For me its the logical consequence and for some parts the necessary backlash, if you ever again want a balanced scale (I think neither you nor Heroclitus want that).