Part 39 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

For clarification, I mean by this that I did not believe what the Missionaries were saying. I was on the verge of thanking them for their efforts and sending them away. I was also thinking, like a prayer to the unseen and unknown God, was my prayer and courage to know the truth in vain? It was at this point that his spirit came to me.

 

And so, in the moment, he set me apart, filled my cup, and showed me his love and approval of his children the Missionaries as if they were far from me, doing his will. Therefore I should smile as well upon them for their loyalty and sacrifices in service to their heavenly Father and to me. So it was for a brief moment as if I was God, that I dwelt in his spirit and endless peace and saw through his eyes. But then he left, my darkness returned, and I was left to myself to wonder and ponder.

 

I quote from two main sources, my primary source comes from the Holy Bible, my secondary source comes from my favorite Christian Ministry. There are times when I quote from other sources when I need to.

With that said, I don't care what pleases you, this thread is not about me pleasing you or anybody else for that matter. It's about me responding to questions/comments with the aid of the sources I utilize to ensure I'm making the best possible responses I can make that adequately and truthfully as it keeps in line with what's written in the Scriptures of the Holy Bible answers the questions/comments posed to me.

But only one side has the truth, I'm on the side that supports what's written in the Scriptures of the Holy Bible, after all I believe the Holy Bible is the inerrant, infallible Word of God. The explanation that you support contradicts the Holy Bible and so it's unbiblical to which I will not accept.

Truth be told, Jewish preachers are confused, not would be confused, but simply confused let me thoroughly explain.

Jewish preachers and all other Jewish religious leaders have been a confused bunch.

They have been confused for such a long time, this confusion still persists today, I mean they are still waiting for the arrival of the Jewish Messiah's first coming because they haven't accepted Lord Jesus as the Jewish Messiah who already came into the world a little over 2000 years ago.

The Old Testament contains numerous prophecies of the Jewish Messiah that was to come into the world but when Lord Jesus came into the world, they failed to recognize that He was this Messiah that was prophesied to come into the world as written in their Scriptures. The attributes that Lord Jesus possessed beared all the signs of a heavenly divine person sent from God, the only begotten Son of God.

From the teachings of His ministry, His impeccable knowledge of the Jewish Scriptures to all those miraculous feats He performed, healing the blind, the cripple, He even brought Lazarus back to life after Lazarus was dead for several days, these are just a few I'm mentioning here that are among the many other miraculous feats He performed but still these confused Jewish religious leaders failed to recognize that the promised Messiah was right there in their own presence...wow!..such gross incompetence these confused Jewish religious leaders exhibited, displaying their spiritual blindness.

And as far as the Gospel writers are concerned, they were essentially first-hand eyewitnesses of the Jewish Messiah the Lord Jesus. The Gospels contain these writers Biblical accounts depicting the virgin birth, the life, the teachings from His ministry, the miraculous feats He performed, the death by crucifixion and the resurrection of the Lord Savior Jesus Christ. The virgin birth and all the other aspects of the life of Jesus were foretold in other words were prophesied in the Jewish Scriptures but these Jewish religious leaders failed to recognize Jesus as the Jewish Messiah.

As a matter of fact, we read in Scripture that Lord Jesus rebuked them and rightfully so, He called them hypocrites, and was very critical of them even John the Baptist had harsh words for them, he called the Pharisees and the Sadducees a brood of snakes.

We Read in Scripture:

Jesus Criticizes the Religious Leaders

23 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The teachers of religious law and the Pharisees are the official interpreters of the law of Moses. [a] 3 So practice and obey whatever they tell you, but don’t follow their example. For they don’t practice what they teach. 4 They crush people with unbearable religious demands and never lift a finger to ease the burden.

5 “Everything they do is for show. On their arms they wear extra wide prayer boxes with Scripture verses inside, and they wear robes with extra long tassels. 6 And they love to sit at the head table at banquets and in the seats of honor in the synagogues. 7 They love to receive respectful greetings as they walk in the marketplaces, and to be called ‘Rabbi.’[c]

8 “Don’t let anyone call you ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one teacher, and all of you are equal as brothers and sisters. [d] 9 And don’t address anyone here on earth as ‘Father,’ for only God in heaven is your Father. 10 And don’t let anyone call you ‘Teacher,’ for you have only one teacher, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you must be a servant. 12 But those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

13 “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either. [e]

15 “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell [f] you yourselves are!

16 “Blind guides! What sorrow awaits you! For you say that it means nothing to swear ‘by God’s Temple,’ but that it is binding to swear ‘by the gold in the Temple.’ 17 Blind fools! Which is more important—the gold or the Temple that makes the gold sacred? 18 And you say that to swear ‘by the altar’ is not binding, but to swear ‘by the gifts on the altar’ is binding. 19 How blind! For which is more important—the gift on the altar or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 When you swear ‘by the altar,’ you are swearing by it and by everything on it. 21 And when you swear ‘by the Temple,’ you are swearing by it and by God, who lives in it. 22 And when you swear ‘by heaven,’ you are swearing by the throne of God and by God, who sits on the throne.

23 “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, [g] but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things. 24 Blind guides! You strain your water so you won’t accidentally swallow a gnat, but you swallow a camel! [h]

25 “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are so careful to clean the outside of the cup and the dish, but inside you are filthy—full of greed and self-indulgence! 26 You blind Pharisee! First wash the inside of the cup and the dish, and then the outside will become clean, too.

27 “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs—beautiful on the outside but filled on the inside with dead people’s bones and all sorts of impurity. 28 Outwardly you look like righteous people, but inwardly your hearts are filled with hypocrisy and lawlessness.

29 “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you build tombs for the prophets your ancestors killed, and you decorate the monuments of the godly people your ancestors destroyed. 30 Then you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would never have joined them in killing the prophets.’

31 “But in saying that, you testify against yourselves that you are indeed the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead and finish what your ancestors started. 33 Snakes! Sons of vipers! How will you escape the judgment of hell?

34 “Therefore, I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers of religious law. But you will kill some by crucifixion, and you will flog others with whips in your synagogues, chasing them from city to city. 35 As a result, you will be held responsible for the murder of all godly people of all time—from the murder of righteous Abel to the murder of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you killed in the Temple between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 I tell you the truth, this judgment will fall on this very generation. Matthew 23:1-36 NLT

Footnotes
a. 23:2 Greek and the Pharisees sit in the seat of Moses.
b. 23:5 Greek They enlarge their phylacteries and lengthen their tassels.
c. 23:7 Rabbi, from Aramaic, means “master” or “teacher.”
d. 23:8 Greek brothers.
e. 23:13 Some manuscripts add verse 14, What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! You shamelessly cheat widows out of their property and then pretend to be pious by making long prayers in public. Because of this, you will be severely punished. Compare Mark 12:40 and Luke 20:47.
f. 23:15 Greek of Gehenna; also in 23:33.
g. 23:23 Greek tithe the mint, the dill, and the cumin.
h. 23:24 See Lev 11:4, 23, where gnats and camels are both forbidden as food.
i. 23:26 Some manuscripts do not include and the dish.

7 But when he saw many Pharisees and Sadducees coming to watch him baptize,[a] he denounced them. “You brood of snakes!” he exclaimed. “Who warned you to flee the coming wrath? 8 Prove by the way you live that you have repented of your sins and turned to God. 9 Don’t just say to each other, ‘We’re safe, for we are descendants of Abraham.’ That means nothing, for I tell you, God can create children of Abraham from these very stones. 10 Even now the ax of God’s judgment is poised, ready to sever the roots of the trees. Yes, every tree that does not produce good fruit will be chopped down and thrown into the fire. Matthew 3:7-10 NLT

Footnotes
a. 3:7 Or coming to be baptized.

As we see Lord Jesus had a lot to say in criticizing these confused, hypocritical, spiritually blinded Jewish religious leaders and rightfully so. And we also see that John the Baptist was critical of these brood of snakes as John puts it.

Ok thanks trev for your post.

 

Way to keep an open mind.

 

Oh, I wouldn't be too sure about that if I were you, I mean every religion has a revolving door, that's not surprising. People become members of a religion, then some members leave that particular religion, and some do a full circle and return again and it's no different from any organization/entity you can think of. The "revolving door" is everywhere. But for you to say, "decline" again I wouldn't be too sure about that unless you have an updated accurate statistical data which I doubt you have.

We have a vast number of religions but pinpointing precisely how many religions there are in the world today is next to impossible, although some estimate the number exceeds four thousand.

And all these religions needless to say are just as prone to this "revolving door" effect as the Christian religion is or any other religion for that matter.

But despite this "revolving door" as far as the Christian religion is concerned, it still has the most adherents than any other religion which makes your argument weak trev. Obviously, the day Christianity isn't number one any more as far as having the most adherents then you can spout off and say Christianity is in decline but until that time, I wouldn't be spouting off what you have spouted off.

But anyhoot let me present an interesting chart below that was composed in 2020. Probably still accurate today since we're only a few years away from when this chart was first composed. I know I presented this chart in a post to you back on Jan 25 of this year on post #1610 but apparently it looks like you've forgotten about it, well I'll just present it again just for you. Note that Christianity has the most adherents/followers but again those numbers are probably slightly different now from where it was in 2020.

Your arguments so far are all senseless. This argument of yours is suggesting that indoctrination only applies to the Christian religion which is one religion out of approx. a little over four thousand world-wide. People who leave a particular religion gives up the indoctrination to that particular religion, however they get re- indoctrinated into another religion they fall into. So, your statement, "They are no longer accepting indoctrination" is somewhat flawed.

"They see through much of the Bible"? So, you speak for people you don't even know? You have no idea what's going on in other peoples' minds, you are not omniscient, only Almighty God is omniscient.

Just be honest and speak for yourself and say, it is you. Tell us you believe you can see through much of the Bible. You know what is true, what is not true because in your delusional mind have insight into 100% of all knowledge....NOT!...lol

And now tell us you don't accept the indoctrination of the Christian religion anymore, but you do accept the indoctrination of your new religion the no god atheist religion.

Truth is, you're just as confused as those Jewish religious leaders I talked about in my previous post to you.

You claimed you were once a Gospel preacher at your local church but became an agnostic and now an atheist. Yes, you went through that revolving door because you became one who became confused.

The confusion for you started when you received background info on the Bible. You got indoctrinated by the works of the devil who is the father of all lies & deception.

Hook, line, and sinker you took the bait and got indoctrinated into the illogical no god atheist religion.

Ok thanks trev for your post, a post that was senseless, weak in arguments presented.

 

It's hardly worth replying to your nonsense. But here goes. You are simply quoting the Bible and regardless of your belief it is inerrant it has been proved so by so many - even believers, Ministers of all religions who have studied and left their positions. Others accept some things - Abraham - Moses - and their stories are simply allegorical. Simply because there is no proof whatever for their existence. Your idea of inerrancy comes from your lack of true knowledge. And your reliance of your sources is again faulty. I have tested them with questions and the answers they give cannot be true. When this is pointed out they have no answer. They just accept they are right.
Jesus preached Judaism that he had been taught from the age of 5 through to 13. Even, the Bible says, the priests were astounded at his knowledge. There are things he had learned that were against what he was supposed to have said.
The late writing is indicated by things written. For instance 'Rabbi' was a term which came into being long after the death of Jesus and after the Temple destruction.
There are many things that he would have said. He was absolutely against the Jewish religious heirarchy and their hypocrisy. Teaching one thing and doing the opposite. Imposing upon the poor. Making rules that saved them giving tithes while expecting the ordinary people to do so.
There are also things that, as a Jew, he would not have said. Had he done so his disciples and the people would not have understood or accepted him.
Why don't you actually do some study for yourself on Judaism etc. then perhaps we would listen to you. You have no idea. When Jesus mentions 'hell' he is using Sheol. The Greek translate Sheol as Hades - Hades was not the place of torment - that was Tartarus - below hell - which later became associated with Hades. Sheol in the OT is usually a place where souls go after death - seldom related to Hell/Tartarus.

The Jews are not confused at all. They still believe in their Messiah. There were no miracles, healings for them to witness to confuse them .
I've already shown you the misuse of OT scripture by Christianity to make Jesus their Messiah. You've never considered it or replied, yet these points cannot be denied. You make the Bible a nonsense by denying these things.

Whatever you want to believe you cannot deny them with honesty, just belief.

I went through the door into reality. As have many others.

And as has already been mentioned a vast number who call themselves Christians are simply names on a register. They are entered in a denomination register at Christening/naming etc. They never enter a church again - often until their funeral. Nowadays cremation with no religious service.

You don't need to post screeds of Scripture. Your use of religious sites indicates my knowledge of scripture is greater than yours. Try your own words instead.

Thanks for your post.

 

The Gospel writers basically all had the same message, so I have no idea what you're saying about the many different interpretations. The Gospels essentially gave mankind God's Good News to all the peoples of the world. This Good News tells us how God makes us right in His sight.

We Read in Scripture:

God’s Good News

8 Let me say first that I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith in him is being talked about all over the world. 9 God knows how often I pray for you. Day and night I bring you and your needs in prayer to God, whom I serve with all my heart[a] by spreading the Good News about his Son.

10 One of the things I always pray for is the opportunity, God willing, to come at last to see you. 11 For I long to visit you so I can bring you some spiritual gift that will help you grow strong in the Lord. 12 When we get together, I want to encourage you in your faith, but I also want to be encouraged by yours.

13 I want you to know, dear brothers and sisters, that I planned many times to visit you, but I was prevented until now. I want to work among you and see spiritual fruit, just as I have seen among other Gentiles. 14 For I have a great sense of obligation to people in both the civilized world and the rest of the world,[c] to the educated and uneducated alike. 15 So I am eager to come to you in Rome, too, to preach the Good News.

16 For I am not ashamed of this Good News about Christ. It is the power of God at work, saving everyone who believes—the Jew first and also the Gentile.[d] 17 This Good News tells us how God makes us right in his sight. This is accomplished from start to finish by faith. As the Scriptures say, “It is through faith that a righteous person has life.”[e] Romans 1:8-17 NLT

Footnotes
a. 1:9 Or in my spirit.
b. 1:13 Greek brothers.
c. 1:14 Greek to Greeks and barbarians.
d. 1:16 Greek also the Greek.
e. 1:17 Or “The righteous will live by faith.” Hab 2:4.

But if you really want to talk about different interpretations then just look at everything in a broader picture, we have thousands upon thousands of religions in this world, all claiming to be right, which of course includes your no god atheist religion trev.

Let me present part of a sermon from Pastor Dr. Michael Youssef, he explains why we have all these differing religions in the world.

Ok thanks trev for your post.

 

Atheism makes no claim to be "true" or "false"

Atheism is the position that theists have not proven their claim that a God exists.


That's it. End of sentence.

 

I may be wrong but I thought this was about religions and the different interpretation of the Bible by so many different sects. Not the Gospels.

 

Can Atheists prove that there is no God in whom to believe. Can they even prove as much as their disbelief? Or are we supposed to just take them at their word. Frankly I'm beginning to think that their disbelief is nothing other than pretending and feigning ignorance.

 

How many corpses do you think are in the graveyards in your town or city area? If they all popped out of their graves and came to your house for a chat with you then you might have a case for believing in your deity.

 

It's not up to us to prove anything. Theists make the claim that a god exists. It is up to theists to prove that claim.
The only claim I make as an atheist is "You have not convinced me."
I think the belief of a theist is nothing more than pretending and feigning knowledge.

 

This is true but as far as numbers go, we really don't know the number, is it tens of millions or hundreds of millions? We just don't know so I wouldn't just say millions, that alone is vague.

But yes, there are Christians who have no relationship with a church. There are Christians who reside in countries like China, Iran, North Korea and other places where it is not allowed, not only not allowed but you could be killed for having a church congregation. Actually, I should say murdered because that is really what it is in those countries who persecute Christians as such.

But anyway, there is nowhere written in the Scriptures of the Holy Bible where God tells believers they must have some kind of affiliation with a church otherwise they won't be saved.

Believers can and are free to worship the Lord on their own, in their own private settings.

Well, again this is true, there are Christians who call themselves Christians, but they are really not faithful Christians. You could say this about any other religion where some of the members are really not faithful to their respective religions. This is not surprising but again you can't put a number to it. Only God knows who these people are who claim to be Christians but are really not, they are essentially fake Christians, again every religion has their own fake members.

This is true again, they go to church on Sundays, go through the motions and as soon as service is over, lickety-split off they go into their own world. Then from the time they get out of church service on Sunday, until the time they go back the following Sunday for another church service, they fall back into their old sinful disgusting habits.

You talk as if religion and science are incompatible with one another. Truth is, people will always retain their belief systems regardless of the advancements of science.

Let's not forget science has already told us that the universe had a beginning and so it had a cause, and it was one big effect to this cause. It's that cause & effect we keep hearing about, you've heard of it haven't you trev? So, science in this respect complements the Christian religion in that we are told in Scripture that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

We Read in Scripture:

The Account of Creation

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.[a] Genesis 1:1 NLT

Footnotes
a. 1:1 Or In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth, . . . Or When God began to create the heavens and the earth, . . .1:1

Truth is, there are approx. four thousand religions out there and so every respective religion has approx. four thousand rivals minus one. Every religion says their religion is right, but truth is they can't all be right, only one is right.

Well to be fair every religion has indoctrination to some extent but unlike Islam most I would say don't use force to get people to believe in their belief system. They use more subtle methods.

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinions/beliefs, and your opinions/beliefs are duly noted, however I don't agree with them. To me the Holy Bible is the inerrant, infallible Word of God and so it contains wisdom and truth and God's plan of salvation to all who believe in Him.

We Read in Scripture:

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23 NLT

Ok thanks trev for your post.

 

I am not God to prove myself. But were I, it would be to the willing. This is just more bravado from you, turning my words backwards and reason upside down, to advance a failing proposition. Every fiber of your being suspects that God lives. And you can't fool me with your denial. You don't want to know.

As for me, I don't believe God lives. I know he does. But I don't know it from man or from myself. I know it from God himself. So your efforts to leverage truth from me is to miss the mark. And you do this intentionally because you don't want to know from God that he lives. You make a game out of the sacred. And you expect me to fix it? Can I see for you, or eat to your nourishing? Why do you consider it reasonable to be unreasonable? The issue isn't whether or not God lives. It is whether or not you even care. I think you do care. But you are playing devils advocate. And that is a dangerous game, to trifle with good and evil.

 

As regards creation, religions long before the Bible was written or Judaism came into being, had a god/s creating the world etc. The Bible only copies them.
Science and the Bible. Science doesn't prove the Bible. It was there in the first place. Archaeology was there before. Much known but lost over time. What we are discovering has always been there.

The Bible is simply copying - though not literally - ancient stories.
Atra-Hasis, perhaps as early as 1900 BC, begins with a time in which a god rules heaven, another rules earth, and a third rules the sea. The “lesser gods,” who sound a bit like angelic beings, are then created to do the bidding of the original gods, but these lesser gods rebel against their creator. Later, the gods create humans for the purpose of doing hard labor. The way in which the story describes the creation of humans is extremely interesting due to its parallels with Genesis. The Atra-Hasis epic states that humans were created by shaping clay figurines infused with the blood of a slain god, similar to the description in Genesis of how Adam was created by shaping him of dust from the earth and then breathed the breath of life into him. Another Sumerian text, known from a tablet dated to about 1400 BC, recounts part of the life of the first man named “Adapa,” recording that this first man talked with the gods, and that the creator god advised him not to eat or drink of what the other gods would offer him because it would bring him death. These appear to be parallels to the story of Adam and the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden.



When the Bible was written in the latter half of the 1st millenia BCE most of the 'science' in the Bible was known to the ancient world. Even the story of Elijah lying on the 'dead' boy and raising him was simply Artificial Respiration and was known and practised by the Ancient Egyptians. The Egyptians had - for the time - much basic knowledge in the 'sciences'. They imparted this knowledge to many Greek scholars who went to Egypt to learn, and then past on that knowledge themselves to others. Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, Euclid, Pythagoras etc. all studied in Egypt and some set up schools in Greece upon their return.
Palestine was the Hub of trade for the ancient world. Travellers from the East landed in Ur and made their way along the trade trail, through the desert, to Palestine and on to Mediterranean ports. Others landed at the Red Sea Ports and went to Palestine and on. They returned the same way - through Palestine. Greeks travelled through Palestine to Egypt and return. All the time they had to stop on their journey several times in Palestine and would converse with the locals. There were no 'scheduled' ships. You simply waited at the port until a ship was going your way. They had time to impart news etc. Traders from China used the Silk Road which led through Palestine. Palestine was useful to the Babylonians and the Assyrians for access to the ports of Tyre and Sidon and trade with the Mediterranean states/countries.
The scribes who wrote the stories of the early part of the Bible had learnt many things such as ancient - to them - history from these travellers. What better than using this knowledge in their stories.
For instance. Most scholars agree - using the Bible genealogy and 430 years in Egypt, Abraham was somewhere around 2100/2000 BCE. That fits neatly with the time when Ur was destroyed. Why would Terah/Abraham not have left to avoid the invasion? A good reason and start for a story. Just a thought.
In case you're wondering, Ur was rebuilt.

Your quoting Scripture is simply repeating yourself to no avail.

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinions/beliefs, and your opinions/beliefs are duly noted, however I don't agree with them. To me the Holy Bible is the inerrant, infallible Word of God and so it contains wisdom and truth and God's plan of salvation to all who believe in Him

Understanding cannot be forced on someone who chooses to be ignorant.

You prefer not to answer what I have asked you for fear of learning.

 

Every fiber of your being realizes there is no evidence for God. You can't fool me with your denial. You don't want to know.

Now why is that statement any different from yours? You claim to know what what I suspect when you actually have no idea. The only way you can justify your belief is by claiming EVERYONE "believes", some are just willfully ignoring that belief. What hogwash.

 

Seems to me that those other stories either corroborate the Bible to some degree or the Bible stands alone. How you arrive at a washout or cancellation of the Bible is baffling.

 

The Bible doesn't say, here's God. It says seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened, ask and ye shall receive. The Bible is a pointer towards God. It is not the source of itself, or God himself. It's only a book with words on paper. We are to find him for ourselves. If that's too much trouble for you, then I guess it is. My testimony is that I know from Gods spirit that he lives. If you want to know that, it will have to come from him or his spirit as it was to me. If there is another way to know, I'm not aware of it. But I know that there is no more sure of a way than from him.

 

More doublespeak hogwash.
Your pronouncements sound just like the character "Sphynx" from the movie "Mystery Men"

 

Hollywood has your ear. Brilliant. Good luck.

 

Considering the early stories were simply men's ideas of how things began before any understanding of the world, and the Bible simply uses them, I don't think any corroboration occurs. Just as man's idea of god varies from culture to culture so does mans idea of creation. Do you believe the Atra-Hasis creation story. If you believe the Bible story then you must accept the Atra-Hasis story. Other than that accept the Bible is just adapting the earlier for its own use. All Abrahamic religions start by adapting beliefs from earlier religions.
Judaism is a mixture of earlier adapted Babylonian and Egyptian beliefs/practices with its own Hebrew beliefs. Christianity takes from Jewish beliefs. Islam ditto. Modern sects all claim adaptations from the Christian teaching. Thus it has been down the ages. God has become all things to all men. Just like Paul (Corinthians) Changed attitude to suit the occasion.
The Maya Creation Story of the Maya The Creation Story of the Maya NARRATION: This is an account of the beginning, when all was stillness, silence, and water. There was no light, no land, no plants, no people, and no animals. Six deities, covered, in green and blue feathers, lay in the primordial waters: the Framer and the Shaper, Tepew and Quetzal Serpent, along with Xpiyacóc and Xmucané. These deities, helped Heart of Sky, also known as Hurakán, create the Earth. Their spirit essence and their miraculous power gave the Earth its creative energy. Now the land had a heart, and they called it Heart of Earth. To separate the sky from the Earth they planted a tall ceiba tree, making space for all life. The roots penetrated deep into the nine levels of the Maya Underworld, the trunk was on the surface of the land, and the branches reached up to the thirteen levels of the Maya Upper-world.
For further reading https://maya.nmai.si.edu/sites/default/files/transcripts/the_creation_story_of_the_maya.pdf

Every people had to create man and used different methods to do so. To do this they used the natural world they saw around them and adapted it for a beginning. That these stories overlap in some ways is not surprising as the world around us to draw on is similar.

 

Well of course to you it's nonsense, however to me it's not nonsense but it makes all the sense in the world, because I'm a believer in the Creator Almighty God, whereas you believe in the nonsense of the fairytale no god atheist religion that states: There is no apparent reason, no purpose whatsoever but there was a day very long ago when "poof!" everything magically appeared all by itself...the universe appeared, all the stars, planets, living beings, just everything that exists appeared from out of nowhere..."poof!" and everything came to be.

Instead of being rational, reasonable and of sound logical mind by accepting/supporting the logical statements, "From nothing, nothing comes" but "From something, something comes", you accept/support the irrational, unreasonable, illogical statement, "From nothing, something comes", which is the NONSENSE you and others like you adhere to.

Ok thanks trev for your post.

 

Again you keep repeating. There is no apparent reason, no purpose whatsoever but there was a day very long ago when "poof!" everything magically appeared all by itself...the universe appeared, all the stars, planets, living beings, just everything that exists appeared from out of nowhere..."poof!" and everything came to be.

Atheism does not say that. You're pathetic. Can't you find anything else to say. And science doesn't say there was nothing at the beginning.,There had to be something for the universe to appear. Science is on its way to explaining things. What it does say is that there is no evidence of a 'creator god'. It is not trying to attempt to explain something for which there is no proof.
That there is a universe is proven by the fact we are part of it. That there is a god is not proven by anything.

Get your head round my questions instead of wasting you efforts as above. Like you, 2 Christian websites have failed to answers my question about the missing generations in Matthews genealogy. It just shows how much these sites are out of touch with the Bible and the ancient world.

 

Sorry trev but nothing has been proven one way or the other. How many times do I have to tell you that when it comes to anything regarding God/Holy Bible/Lord Jesus no one can prove/disprove anything, all intellectual honest people acknowledge and understand this factual statement.

People leaving doesn't prove anything, it's just that they have come to believe something else.

I've already told you about this "revolving door" in a very recent post that's everywhere. And let's not forget what beliefs are.

Ok thanks trev for your post.

 

Is that why so many 'intellectual' people are leaving the faith, or ignoring the faith for science.
And yes. Most have come to believe something else. That the Bible is errant and that there is no evidence of the Christian god.
And don't bother to quote me 'intellectuals' that believe. I really don't have time to go through those who don't believe.
From past experience with the clergy of most denominations I can tell you that there are those who have doubts about the inerrancy of the Bible but practise those things they believe about Jesus. Many no longer believe the reality of Abraham to Moses or original sin which stems from Roman traducianism. Many no longer believe in hell which is a mistranslation of the Jewish belief (sheol).

You are proving that you have nothing to offer in way of explanation of the points I have made.