11 days until your SS checks might be interrupted

That's fine. I don't think there will be a default.

The threat is real if we default. I don't think anyone dares cause a default.

 

No, even if we "default" the threat against Social Security is totally fake.

 

Most do not.

Many people won't save no matter what we do. We could do more with SS funds than lend them to the government.

You lose your $35/hour job and the only job you can get pays $15/hour. You're better off going on disability and working under the table. There is a widespread willingness to use disability as early retirement.

Older workers with outdated work skills have a tough row to hoe. Retraining opportunities by business are fewer.

Those would be...? I'm independent--a retiree who doesn't use SS or Medicare.

Folks do like their creature comforts.

The power and wealth is based on rigging the system against workers.

 

Default is inevitable. The clock is about to hit zero and there is no deal in sight

 

I think the point is enhancing their wealth. Dependence of the population is a means to an end, not the end itself.

 

One option is to raise the debt ceiling a little so we're back at it with an extended deadline.

 

Yes, if we had politicians whose only goals were not owning the other party and winning the 2024 election.

0% chance that happens

 

Interesting. I think extending the deadline a couple of weeks is one of the more likely scenarios.

The plot thickens, as they say.

Folks are lathered up about gun control, abortion, inflation, illegals, inflation, schools,
2SLGBTQIA+ (2Spirit, Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Questioning, Intersex, Asexual) (+Pansexual, +Agender, +Gender Queer, +Bigender, +Gender Variant, +Pangender), the Ukraine--if this creates a serious financial problem, it will add to the hostility.

 

I don't think either party wants to see SS benefits become a problem someone blames on them.

 

I don’t know how many times it has to be said . Social Security checks will not be stopped. For those who remember the month long shutdown in 1995, checks were mailed throughout the shutdown.

Social Security is able to continue mailing benefits because it doesn’t need Congress to authorize funds for it each year.

Please stop with the fear tactics.

 

Which is one of the many reasons Social Security isn't an issue in this "default."

 

I think the evidence supports that most do choose dependence. Let’s look a bit deeper at disability. Heart disease is the second most common condition leading to disability payments. And 80% of cardiovascular disease is preventable. Thus means 80% of the second most common demographic on SSD payments ended up in that position because of lifestyle choices they made. The majority of leading disabilities are conditions resulting from or highly exacerbated by lifestyle choices.

Yes, schools should teach kids to avoid the SS Ponzi scheme as much as possible. It shouldn’t be anyone’s retirement plan. It should be a last resort, not a life goal to work until SS and Medicare kick in.

Yes, people often choose dependence because as I said the government makes it the easiest route to take.

True, but there has never been a time in human history like today with our opportunity to learn new skills through technology like the internet. Tech can help and hinder.

Yes, you invested in the markets and incentivized corporations to pay as low of wage as possible so profitably would drive stock prices higher. You are responsible for a lion’s share of the pay gap.

The benefits to independence are legion. In the political side of the equation it affords you the ability avoid tribal partisanship. You don’t have to vote for an idiot just because they promise the thing you must have from government. You are not subject to manipulation by politicians who promise what you must have.

I don’t have to explain the economic advantages. You are not forced into working until eligible for SS. You don’t have to scrimp on a fixed SS income.

 

You think getting heart disease is choosing dependence? I don't think it's that simple.

Social Security can't be a Ponzi scheme because it isn't an investment.

C'mon, you can do better than that.

I spent a career in teaching showing students how they earn a living that takes good care of themselves and their future families, if they have one. Not once did I ever tell them they were doing it to avoid being manipulated by pols "who promise what you must have."

Most people are content with at least starting retirement with what is a government annuity.

 

Social Security will not be affected by a government shutdown or default..... Social security is considered mandatory spending and has it's own program trust fund so the SS benefits will continue to be paid.
This thread is a bunch of lefty garbage and misinformation.

 

It amazes me reading through these posts, that those who claim to know so much know so little. If they bothered to do a cursory search, they would know Social Security benefits will continue.

 

I don’t “think” so, it’s a fact. Most (80%) of heart disease results from lifestyle choices. When you choose to mess up your heart and can’t work you become dependent on SS disability. You’ve been led to believe disabilities like this are just bad luck etc. but they are actually choices people make for the most part.

It’s statements like that which makes me cringe when you claim to have taught economics. Ponzi schemes by definition are investments. Initial investors are paid off with funds from future investors and the volume of new investors must continually increase to keep the scheme solvent.

Social Security is exactly the same. Some SS tax revenue was legitimately invested in securities. Same as initially some investor money paid to Ponzi and Madoff went into legitimate investments.

But just like with Ponzi and Madoff, at some point the revenue from legitimate investments can’t cover promised payments to investors and new investor money is used to pay initial investors their due returns. So for a while now SS has been liquidating past investments to cover the gap between payments and revenue to the point it will soon be insolvent. Just like happened to Ponzi and Madoff.

To recap.

1) Both classic Ponzi and SS utilize some legitimate investments.

2) Both SS and classic Ponzi promise payments to initial investors they can’t deliver without increasing volume of investors in the future.

3) Both Ponzi and SS rely on an increasing number of new “investors” to cover payments to initial investors. When new investors run out the Ponzi fails and SS becomes insolvent.

Social security is classic Ponzi in every way. This source may help you understand what’s going on.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/an...re are fewer workers left,by 2033 as a result.

Oh I most certainly do better than that. I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night if my independence came at the cost of denying workers compensation for their labor just so stock prices can go up.

If I had made my money by intentionally causing the productivity pay gap by incentivizing corporations to pay dividends over wages I wouldn’t brag about it while simultaneously complaining about the pay gap I helped cause.

I would have to agree I’ve most certainly can (and do) better than that.

Shame. Lots of lost opportunity. Could have helped with much needed education on civics as well.

Government Ponzi.

 

People aren't as strong as you expect them to be.

You might be surprised at what I believe and how I came to my beliefs. My wife taught foods courses in high schools for 33 years. We're not fat, exercise, aren't diabetics, etc.

I did teach economics and SS is not an investment. It's a government pension. It "invests" in government bonds.

The government could do what Canada does with the Canada Pension Plan. ChatGPT:

"The Canada Pension Plan (CPP) is a government-operated pension plan in Canada that provides income to retired or disabled individuals. The CPP Investment Board (CPPIB) is responsible for managing and investing the funds of the CPP to maximize returns.

The CPPIB invests the CPP funds in a diversified portfolio of assets globally, aiming to generate long-term, sustainable returns to support the pension payments. The specific investments and asset allocation strategy of the CPPIB may change over time, but typically, the investments include:

1. Public Equities: CPPIB invests in publicly traded stocks of companies in various sectors and countries.
2. Fixed Income Securities: This category includes government bonds, corporate bonds, and other fixed-income instruments.
3. Private Equity: CPPIB invests in privately held companies and participates in buyouts, growth capital, and venture capital opportunities.
4. Real Estate: Investments are made in commercial properties, residential developments, office buildings, and other real estate assets.
5. Infrastructure: CPPIB invests in infrastructure assets such as airports, toll roads, pipelines, and renewable energy projects.
6. Credit Investments: This involves investing in debt instruments such as loans, mezzanine financing, and credit derivatives.
7. Foreign Currencies: The CPPIB may hold foreign currencies as part of its investment strategy, considering global diversification.

It's important to note that the CPPIB's investment decisions are guided by their mandate to invest with a view to the long-term sustainability of the CPP, and they aim to generate returns that help ensure the plan's ability to meet future pension obligations. The CPPIB also takes into account environmental, social, and governance (ESG) factors when making investment decisions."

There's no trust fund, just IOUs from the federal government. Benefit levels are set by the government. In reality, Social Security is a tax paid by workers to take care of retirees.

Pols who talk about trust funds "running out of money" might as well be talking about canals on Mars and green cheese on the moon. It's not reality.

Ponzi schemes hide the fact they're not an investment. Social Security isn't hiding anything.

You go ahead and talk about trust funds running out of money.

Unless you run a business consistent with your principles, buy physical assets hoping they will increase in value or use them to generate revenue, or hide you money under the mattress, you're probably helping a corporation make money off their employees' labor.

Oh, darn. I guess I should hang my head for revamping the curriculum to teach students how to make a living instead of just working for someone else. Nothing wrong with being an employee, but life can take an ugly turn if you can't find a job.

I also taught civics as part of teaching American history.

 

People are much stronger than you expect them to be. When you taught did you tell students they were weak and couldn’t make good choices that would make their lives better?

I’m glad you are fit and healthy. I’m sad you believe you are strong but others are too weak to do what you have done. I find that a bit elitist I must say.

I look at your success and say “look at what Langleyman has done and how it makes his life better”. I say to others, “you all can do it too!”

Apparently you look at your success and say “I’m strong and fit”. But then you say “you others are weak and incapable of being fit like me”.

I believe having low expectations of folks is a big problem.

Well, you have referred to SS as an investment at least twice in our discussion so far. Here are the ones I remember off the top of my head.

Lending money is by definition investing. Annuities are by definition investments. A pension is an investment.

So Canada has more diversification in where they invest SS revenue. Interesting.

Well not really a trust fund since Jimmy Carter anyway. Yes, money taken in today from future beneficiaries pays for beneficiaries today. Just like a Ponzi.

They already took the money!

Ponzi schemes are investments.

I’m just pointing out the money coming in from current investors isn’t covering the money going out to previous investors. That’s how Ponzi schemes collapse. I agree the trust funds were eliminated as soon as the government started spending trust funds elsewhere. Fortunately, for the short term anyway, the Gov. can create money whereas non government Ponzi's can’t. That’s the only meaningful difference.

Yes, I run my business consistent with my principles. When I require labor (rarely) I trade it—no rent seeking. I buy physical assets that throughout world history have a solid history of appreciation. The same assets are used to produce products every human uses and thereby generate revenue. I don’t stockpile cash except enough for emergencies (independence). Yes, the products I buy in some cases facilitate rent seeking in the companies producing those products. I attempt to acquire inputs from other worker owned or controlled businesses.

No you should be quite proud of teaching how to make a living on your own. I’m a HUGE fan. I just think it’s important people realize how much less freedom they have when their politics are dependent on their job or lack of resources generally.

But nothing about not asking what your country can do for you?

 

There is evidence that ChatGPT lies:

A Lawyer’s Filing “Is Replete with Citations to Non-Existent Cases”—Thanks, ChatGPT? “The lawyer’s colleague, who drafted the filing, says he relied on ChatGPT to draft the filing and provide the text of the cases, and neglected to check them.”

Made up the cases, and made up the quotes from the cases that supposedly supported the position they were requesting the Court adopt in the filing.

 

Yup. It was only a matter of time.

IF the Saudis decide they want something beside USD for oil, say gold for instance, the dollar will be in the toilet and everyone's savings will be ruined.

That's the sxxx part of default. When the USD becomes defunct, and it's only a matter of time, savings will be worthless.

 

I did, but not every teacher takes the time to show them how they can be successful.

You know how to help and motivate students, do you?

I taught them how to start a simple business like building fences.

I coached basketball and golf.

I explained why SS isn't an investment. It's

Yep.

You can't run a 16-bay auto repair facility with a carwash and gasoline without hiring people, and without a profit you can't service debt and satisfy investors.

It should be a elective state course for senior high students.

 

No employer hires a hand unless they can't do it themselves and that hand earns the employer money...

...unless you are government. Then we say ,"here is what's in the Treasury", just a bunch of debt. Then the leftist govevernment types looked sad on the soapbox and promised the voters better services. They don't mention the greater expense of course. It's like everyone forgot you don't get something for nothing.

 

I'm in my thirties, so I don't get Social Security. If the Security Security checks stop coming does that mean the government stops taking big, wet bites out of my paycheck each time for a service that is probably not going to be there when I reach retirement age?

 

But I don't. I'll use ChatGPT when I approve of what it's saying.

 

I think a government pension is always going to be available.