11 days until your SS checks might be interrupted

Interesting answer to my question.

I would never tell students such things.

I guess. I was paid by a college I attended to tutor biology. The students I tutored raised their grades and the college kept paying me so I guess I did something right. I never told any student they were weak and couldn’t succeed in biology classes as I had. Do you think I would have had better success if I had told them that?

Simple businesses that provide things society always needs are the best place to start.

No, you offered an incorrect opinion that SS isn’t an investment. Yet you (correctly) referred to SS as an annuity and (correctly) as government borrowing from workers. Both annuities and lending are textbook examples of investments.

And apparently you have to stiff the workers and not compensate them fully for their productivity! That’s what you keep complaining about. Does the worker deserve more or the investor? As an investor you apparently believe it’s your right to rent seek at the expense of the worker.

Civics? An elective? That doesn’t seem to be working out well. But I don’t believe states with civics requirements are turning out better citizens than non requirement states. So maybe it doesn’t matter anyway.

 

Riiiggghhht, and this predicament has nothing to do with biden’s handlers and their ridiculous, stupid, wasteful spending of OUR tax dollars?

Imagine if you will for a moment:
Politicians who are elected ACTUALLY CARE about the citizens they are SWORN to PROTECT.

Yes, it would be, well, them doing EXACTLY what the CONSTITUTION was put in place for them to be held accountable for should they not act in the taxpaying citizens best interests.


With things the way they are and are headed: the taxpaying citizens have no one to blame but THEMSELVES.

 

No representation without taxation! Throw the government cheese into the harbor!

That Biden was pxxxing other people's money away in congress for decades.

 

Yeah, sure--a guy who taught them how to start a business thinks telling students they're "weak and stupid" is a good approach.

I can see you have no idea government is not "investing" when it puts excess SS taxes into government bonds.

What should be the return to the capital factor of production?

No, teaching students how to start their own business should be a state elective.

 

And she will be getting a pot load of corporate tax money.

You knew that, right?

How about we put the employees at the Department of Education and Commerce and Agriculture and HUD and Labor on layoff and about 3/4's or Interior and half the Congressional staffers. That should be able to make up for the $20B.

 

You're sidestepping @Quantum Nerd's question about what we should cut if we leave alone Social Security, Medicare and defense.

 

I specifically asked if you told them they were weak and you said you did. Are you not reading my posts?

Well they are. But it doesn’t matter whether they are or not. Social security itself is an investment. You admitted that when you referred to SS being an annuity. And when you said we are loaning money to the government. Both annuities and lending are classic textbook examples of investing.

Social security is an investment, period. Even if excess SS funds don’t earn big returns from bonds. And SS is a ponzi because it relies on current investors to fund payouts to past investors.

You have probably posted graphs of the productivity pay gap on PF 100 times complaining that the return to capital is too much and the return to labor is not enough. Then you brag about becoming wealthy by helping create that gap. It’s amusing so I point it out from time to time.

That makes more sense. Knowing how to start/run a business would not be bad as a requirement though. People who understand how to start/run a business have more leverage and are less likely to be taken advantage of in the workforce.

 

Interest on the debt
National Security
Social Security and Medicare

Then everything is on the table. Cut 2% across the board and limit future to 1%. Send a meme to all government managers, cut back and do a better job else you will be replaced. You know like in the private sector.

 

The processing is done by direct deposit and funded internally by the SSA.

You DO realize funds coming into the US Treasury will not stop on June 1st if there is no agreement? Why would our debt be worthless when Yellin can continue to service it?

 

Why are they sidestepping the question? Let's look at 2022 numbers:

Non-military discretionary spending: $650 billion
Federal deficit: $1.37 trillion

So, even if ALL non-defense discretionary spending was cut, The deficit would only be cut in half. Therefore, you HAVE to look at the big three, i.e. defense, Medicare and SS.

Of course, the Republicans don't want to touch those, because their base depends on them. This really all is theater, because there are no grown men who are willing to tell the truth to the American people, when it comes to the budget and deficit.

 

No, I didn't. That's flat BS.

Good grief. All this to support your bogus claim Social Security is a Ponzi scheme.

You think putting all FICA revenue over current payments into government bonds is investing.

You think making money by investing is bragging? Real investing? How about running a business that employs people? This is what a lot of investors and business owners do every day.

Learning how to start a business takes a lot of time. I don't think the skill is one we should require students to learn.

 

LOL. I never post BS. It’s all on record on PF. Here is my question and your answer…. again.

I don’t think you are reading my posts. You are just spouting unsubstantiated opinions without addressing my posts directly.

Social Security is a ponzi. It is an investment that requires a continuous increase in new investors to pay off initial investors. Social security is an investment—you’ve said so yourself when you referred to SS as an annuity and when you said SS taxes were loans to the government.

LOL. What would YOU call it? Government bonds are investments. When ANYONE buys government bonds they are investing in bonds.

But as I said and YOU said, SS is an annuity and a loan to the government, so it’s an investment on it’s own no matter where “cash on hand” is stashed.

No. I just have seen you bragging about making money in the stock market. That money is compensation you denied workers. And then you complain about the productivity pay gap. The pay gap that is CREATED by investors extracting as much compensation as possible at the expense of the worker. I don’t have a problem with making money investing. I just think it’s silly to complain about the natural consequences of doing so.

Nah, it doesn’t take much time to go over the basics. Things like I’m schooling you on in these posts. It doesn’t take long to teach folks willing to learn that the more fingers are in the pie the less pie you get. It doesn’t take long to teach folks the consequences of taking capital from others to start a business leads to more fingers in the pie. And not long to explain that’s not necessarily BAD, just that it limits the ability to compensate workers fully for their productivity. Choices, dude. Just like how we started out. You can choose to cater to capital or to the worker. But not both simultaneously. And if you choose to cater to capital it’s silly to complain about a productivity pay gap.

 

I'm willing to tell the truth, it's a big problem that so much of the budget is fixated on these three items. At the turn of the 20th century, America was an industrial superpower. What happened in the span of 45 years(and no, it's not just the tax breaks. If anything, were that theory correct, they should be even more willing to be here, since we give them more breaks than say another country would.)

I think we need to figure out economically, not politically, what the hell has transpired in these last few decades.

 

Maybe we should continue funding them and pay higher taxes

There's much truth to tell, too. A lot of people won't have jobs in the future. How can they earn a living? I hope we stop the manufacture of a lot of green technology when we should be putting our money into research. Or put money into retrofitting housing nearing the end of its life. Do we want people to be able to travel long distances?

 

Social Security benefits are always paid a month after, not current. Thus, any social security benefits are for the month of May and are already part of the debt limit that will be reached in early June if no deal is made by that time. If no deal goes on till July, then benefits will be delayed or even not paid in full. What also happens is Medicare processing will cease to exist because that is paid for by the general fund, and again, that can happen as early as mid June. These claims are always paid not concurrently, but when they are processed, which can take 14 days minimum. Medicare may deny payment for large expenses such as operating costs paid for by Medicare Part A, copays paid for by Part B, or prescription drug costs paid for by Part D. And all of this is based on what Social Security will determine if they have "enough cash to meet demands for an unspecified period of time.

 

Investing is not just lending money. It is the expectation of a return once you pay for something to invest whether it be real or personal property. Lending is simply a financial way for paying for that investment and goes into the calculation of that return of investment.

that's the difference. Canada invests those funds beyond the simple interest rates that US Trust funds do. By law, Social Security Trust funds can only invest in government "risk free" debentures. I think Canada, not to mention Singapore, and others invest in other types of investments. It is generally called a wealth fund and managed by government. We can do the same with our Social security Trust Fund through Thrift Savings Accounts, TSP that can get a much better return in the long term.

Longer than that. the first trust fund, the Old Age retirement Trust Fund, OASDI, has been in existence since 1934. The Social Security Disability Trust Fund has been in existence since Carter when they changed the system to allow SSDI payments. Both are excluded from the budgetary process, hence nondiscretionary spending, since 1990, GWHB days.

No, they are scams. But SS is not a ponzi scheme, not even close. It is not an investment. It is a social insurance policy, like any insurance policy you may have.

We are spending more than what we take in because of several factors: one we have a much lower worker to retiree ratio than the 1960s, second we are living longer with some people outliving their IRA's with minimum required distributions, we are having more people retire, either medically or because they are baby boomers and Gen Xers, and we have "borrowed" from the Trust fund to lower that deficit in the federal budget and that has been going on since the Reagan Administration. but none of this makes Social Security a ponzi scheme at all which was first introduced by an Italian immigrant named Charles Ponzi who sold insurance policies with a very high rate of return. For a ponzi scheme to exist, it must provide a very high, unusual rate of return, usually guaranteed, overly consistent returns, unregistered investments, unlicensed sellers, secretive or complex strategies, issues with paperwork, and difficulty receiving payments. This is what happened to FTX and what a lot of fly-by-night crytocurrency exchange apps are currently in the market now, especially foreign like Singapore. Social Security does not meet all of those requirements to be considered a ponzi scheme.

 

I don’t know where you got this information but I’m sorry you are wrong. Social Security is an independent agency. It does not depend on Congress for its funding. Ongoing benefits have always been paid during a shut down and always will. New claims may be delayed in processing because employees will be furloughed, but existing benefits will be paid on time every time.

 

You are obfuscating the difference between where Social Security resports to and how it is financed. It is all located in the docs as well as in the law. An independent agency merely means it does not report to one of the large departments within the Federal government and that the decision are not based on the whim of the president. You have direct federal agencies which are part of the 20-something departments, you have independent federal agencies that are only responsible for their mission statement, and quasi-federal agencies like the Post office.

But social security benefits are always paid a month after. If you got a social security benefits letter, it will state of when your benefits start and when the first benefit is paid, assuming you have no back benefits being paid in a lump sum. Medicare is a health insurance program in which you should get an EOB statement of some type. And those are always processed at least 14 days out..

 

That's real investing. I didn't rig the system in favor of knowledgeable investors. I just make money off it.

Huh? I'm not complaining about the way things work, but saying we should make things work differently. I haven't said what we should do, although I have commented some alternatives.

The government isn't investing in itself. It's taking the money and leaving a marker.

Republicans want to welch on the marker.

Social Security is like an annuity in that it promises a payout for life, but the annuitant has an enforceable contract with an insurer. The difference is your SS annuity can be cancelled or modified whenever the government sees fit. It's a government promise, not an investment. And there is no competitor allowed in the market. They tax you, so you're involved, like it or not.

 

What about the return to capital? They expect something for risking their money.

 

Yes, benefits are paid in the the month after . This has nothing to do with ongoing benefits being paid in a timely manner. Those beneficiaries are already in the system and their checks are generated electronically. No employees are processing their benefits each month. Claims Authorizers and Benefit Authorizers adjudicate new claims. If there is a shut down, and they are furloughed, those claims will not be paid because they have not been completed . They do not work on existing claims unless there is a specific issue like an overpayment. no one will miss their existing retirement or disability check.

Processing Medicare and Medicaid claims is a horse of a different color. The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services is an entirely different agency than Social Security. CMS processes your Medicare claims. Social Security collects the premium and enrolls you in the Medicare/Medicaid program, but they are not the ones who process those claims. If they are furloughed, there may be a delay. Your coverage will not be suspended but claims for payment of a medical bill or reimbursement may be delayed since those workloads are not finite and a set dollar amount like a retirement benefit or disability benefit. If that’s what you’re talking about, then you are correct those claims could very well be delayed. Your retirement or disability check no.
That’s all I have to say.
Enjoy your evening Alwayssa.

 

yes it does when it comes to payments and the debt ceiling if that is not resolved. So, June payments, which are the benefits paid for the month of May is already incurred in the debt ceiling. It is after June that is the problem if the debt crisis goes on longer. But a shutdown, per the law, the president has some discretion. But that is not the case when it is the debt ceiling. It is automatic and anything that is not per the law as national security, which is the US military and any law enforcement agency, the remaining federal workforce will be furloughed, PERIOD. That includes the employees at SSA, VA, and other agencies even if they have nondiscretionary spending in their budgets.

 

When one lends money they are investing. Period. That’s what is relevant to the conversation with Langleyman. He claims (correctly) when we pay SS tax we are lending to the government. Thus, SS is an investment.

Of course there are other types of investments than simple lending. I’ve mentioned a couple others already. The point is SS is an investment.

That makes more sense than setting up a Ponzi like we have where solvency can only be maintained by continually increasing the number of contributors (investors).

I’m well aware SS existed before Carter. During the Carter administration was when looting of SS for other uses began. That was my point. And that’s when it REALLY became a Ponzi. It guaranteed insolvency without continually increasing new “investors”. Before Carter insolvency was possible. When SS became a slush fund (like investor money in a Ponzi) instead of a trust fund insolvency became a certainty.

Ponzi’s don’t always start out as scams. The Ponzi from which the term originated was not initially a scam. More below.

And yes, SS is an investment.

It’s funny you guys don’t even know what Ponzi did. He initially practiced legal arbitrage using international return coupons. But when the Universal Postal Union suspended IRC’s he had to resort to paying off initial investors with new investor money. It snowballed from there…but had NOTHING to do with insurance policies. SMH.

Social security has all the necessary basics of a Ponzi. It’s an investment. It’s “guaranteed”. It initially promised (and provided) unusual rates of return. It DEPENDS on new investors to pay initial and previous investors. It at times makes legitimate investments but can not remain solvent without continuing growth in new investments.

Here is the Security and Exchange Commission definition of a Ponzi.

https://www.investor.gov/introduction-investing/investing-basics/glossary/ponzi-schemes

Social security fits that definition provided by the SEC.

Here is a bit on the initial high returns promised by SS. Returns are falling off because as you say there is a lack of new investors to keep the scheme going.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2013/feb/01/medicare-and-social-security-what-you-paid-what-yo/

I don’t see any reason to deny SS is a Ponzi. It is by the SEC definition of Ponzi.

 

Real investing? There are many real investments that aren’t stocks! SMH. I didn’t say you rigged the system. I correctly stated you have taken compensation you say belongs to workers for yourself.

Why make things different? You want to deny others the opportunity you took full advantage of to gain wealth on the backs of workers? You got yours and NOW you want to change things? But you don’t want change bad enough to change your own behavior!

It doesn’t have anything TO invest now. What WAS invested is being liquidated to pay off old investors because there aren’t enough new investors to keep the Ponzi going!

Really? I’ve not seen evidence of that but I don’t follow party politics so couldn’t say for sure. You are welcome to substantiate that claim though.

Yes, involvement in SS is enforced by taxation. No investment is defined by whether or not there is an enforceable contract! I would highly recommend a legal contract, but an investment is an investment regardless of whether it’s regulated by a government entity or not.

I agree the SC has made it clear the government has no intention of being bound contractually with SS investors. Social Security is still an investment. If I loan money to my brother on terms so he can start a video editing business, I’m investing whether or not we sign a legal contract.

 

I just pointed out what YOU posted in response to my question. I accept your concession you don’t read my posts for content before responding.

Of course. That’s why it’s silly for you to endlessly bemoan the productivity pay gap! You can’t have it both ways!