A little chance to end the war soon ...

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by pitbull, Aug 8, 2023.

  1. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    "You can't find anything in Ukraine essential to US security".....??

    Geez.....you posted this numerous times....?

    As I said before....If Ukraine should fall....then Poland ,Baltics, Finland are on Putlers target list....ICYMI....the dudes a nutcase and a crazy gambler....he wouldn't hesitate to attack these countries through some outlandish claims.

    Seems you don't see the forest for the trees.
     
  2. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

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    Poland is a NATO country. So are the Baltic States. If Russi a ever attacked any of thoise their army would be destroyed in days. The Russian Army is a joke... from tactics, to logistics, to mercenary members that march on Moscow and have to be assasinated to an Air Force that can't establish superiority over Ukraine. Russia attacking NATO would be like Sri Lanka attacking China.
     
  3. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    No. All you're doing is making up outcomes to fit your narrative.....your narrative makes no sense.
     
  4. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    In late 2021 he confidently claimed China was 'primed' to take Taiwan and when pressed predicted the invasion would be by September....2022....because Biden. So, making up outcomes to fit a narrative is 100% correct.

    Feel free to quote his prediction back at him - read the back & forth, it is hilarious. I would do it, but he put me on ignore to avoid being called on it.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...ritorial-waters-mosco.593299/#post-1073011244
     
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  5. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

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    Here's a piece I just wrote for a military journal. I thought you might find it of interest:

    Thanks for a very interesting article. While I can claim little real expertise in the political world, I felt compelled to express a different view that is apparently in line with the "3/4 of Republicans" mentioned in the article that want to curtail support for Ukraine. I always thought it was axiomatic that America would only expend its people and/or treasure in efforts that could be directly linked to ensuring the National Security of the United States. For the life of me I can't find that link anywhere in the Russia-Ukraine conflict. Indeed, Ukraine was once part of our biggest enemy when a member of the Soviet Union. It seemed not to be a critical item in our national security at that time. It has no essential raw materials we need, no location of note, nothing of real value. Its just... Ukraine. Its not NATO so there is no moral or legal defense commitment involved. The only issue is that if Ukraine falls to Putin, folks assume he will continue to move into NATO territory and its "Katie bar the door". I don't buy that.
    First, the Russian Army has proven itself to be a real Keystone Kops operation. It began with an armored thrust south towards Kiev. I seem to remember it got bogged down and the Russian armor turned into a towing pintle to towing pintle replica of the Long Island Expressway at rush hour. And there it sat. I seem to remember that we learned as Plebes that you moved in column because it was the fastest and most efficient method to move. But at first contact, you spread out into a line formation to develop the battle. Well the Russians didn't do that. They stayed in column, one behind the other, essentially immobile. As American made Javelins chewed them to bits for days (or was it weeks?) they stopped advancing and gave up on Kiev, stopped dead literally (in their tracks").
    Meanwhile, in the east, Russian forces made minimal ground gains. After 18 months of little improvement, these gains can only be described as "pitiful". Remember. expectations were that Russia would have a "walk in the park" absorbing Ukraine. Now, 18 months after STARTEX, the Russian maneuver forces are basically bogged down in both the east and west. Nor have they been able to establish air superiority. Indeed, a large portion of their (mercenary) forces turned around and threatened Moscow rather than Kiev! And the only solution to end this disaster included assassinating the mercenary leader. In the end, Moscow itself was attacked with Ukrainian UAV assets, civilian protests against the war have become routine, the Russians are recruiting criminals to fill in their ranks, and new recruits are being sent into battle with only two weeks training. It is "intuitively obvious to the most casual observer" that the Russian military is an out-and -out mess. It can hardly be considered a THREAT to NATO.
    It was on this forum that I read about a large force of Brits poised in the Baltics to make a quick run across the border and seize Leningrad (or whatever they're calling it these days) which would further blunt any Russian attack on NATO as Putin's folks ran home to liberate one of their largest cities.
    Meanwhile, I have always believed that a solid Sino-Russian alliance has been established. China is bucking up the Russian economy by buying their goods, including oil (a nice touch in preparation for an invasion of Taiwan). China is also providing war materials (lethal and non-lethal) to Russia. And anyone who missed the significance of a recent HUGE Sino-Russian joint naval exercise in the waters off Alaska just isn't paying attention. As all this is going on, we are depleting our war stocks that could be used to defend Taiwan. We have dipped into our POMCUS stocks as well as our domestic supplies. You don't just run down to hardware store to replenish Javelin, Stinger, 155mm DPICM rounds and ATACMS rounds. Contracting takes time and some of these items require complex long-lead item components that take a long time to get into the pipeline. I can't help but believe that depleting our war stocks to whatever level they can is a purposeful preparation for the invasion of Taiwan.
    And while I cannot see any strategic value in Ukraine to the security of the United States... Taiwan is totally different. Taiwan produces over 50% of the worlds microchips. If China grabs Taiwan, China would control upwards of 75% of the world's microchip production... even more if they made a grab at South Korea. China seeks world dominance. Having the global economy in the palm of its hand due to global control of microchip production puts them in the proverbial :cat bird's seat. I can smell a remake of Neville Chamberlain's "Peace in Our Time" fiasco.,, and maybe some activated fifth columnists who strolled across our open border, waiting for their "GO CODE" just for good measure? (assisted with the latest ELINT/SIGINT and imaging provided by a Chinese balloon that took a leisurely, unopposed stroll across the skies of America) The next time a "balloon goes up" it will likely involve the entire Pacific. Ukraine... what a perfect diversion.
    Just my two cents..
     
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  6. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    :)....it's hard to get this guy to take responsibility for his posts...all one gets is a mish-mash of half digested thoughts he's probably been given but can't rationalise....he started off on "Force Projection" but ducked out of that and then went on to China and flipped out...his last thought was its "my dad's bigger than your dad and you don't know anything about China...so there!!!"....so I've pretty much zoned out with him....
     
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  7. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    ....and after all of that he tells you he is an expert because he went to West Point in the 70s....or something like that. It really is funny.
     
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  8. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    ah okay....I didn't know that....so the 70's....that sort of makes sense now
     
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  9. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    Give him a chance and you'll get the whole resume'. It really is funny when you contrast it with the qualit yof the analysis (or lack thereof).
     
  10. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    ...that one phrase pretty much speaks volumes....please....try and think in more than 2 dimensions....there's a huge inter connected world out there based on commerce and trade and consumption and diplomacy and and and and.....a myriad of nodes and hubs and spokes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2023
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  11. Glücksritter

    Glücksritter Well-Known Member

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    Why should any other president let Russia off the hook? Of course, it depends on the circumstances, but a Russia like today which indoctrinates its population that the US is the sworn enemy is no party any US preseident will show any sympathy.
     
  12. Glücksritter

    Glücksritter Well-Known Member

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    Its a relative cheap preemptive action against an enemy whose goal is the destruction of the US, who is atm just a megalomanic lunatic that he even considers himself on the same level as the US or China. Lets be realist, even if Putin conquers parts of the Ukraine or even if he succeeded to conquer Ukraine as a whole thats not the case, so yes, at this point you could argue what difference it makes for the US, but Putin made clear what his next steps are. Why should the US let him build an empire?

    On the other hand the more desastrous this war ends, the more likely Putin regime's finished, the more likely that someone with at least acceptance of reality will conquer the Kremlin.

    Reality is that on the long run Russia is just prey for China (maybe as well for Turkey at other fronts, but most important China) and that they need the US as a partner, if they dont wanna end up colonized or at least economically completely dominated by China.
     
  13. Glücksritter

    Glücksritter Well-Known Member

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    Venezuela could pay off in the long run, in the other conflicts no one is interested. Shithole states, that have to feel the Chinese whip, bc before they will sing the woke song of the evil white man. They could use a century under the Chinese whip until you can negotiatte reasonable with them.

    There is no direct threat, of course. The long-run ambitions of Russia are no secrets, if you wanna stop them or not or at which point at which cost its up to you.

     
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  14. Glücksritter

    Glücksritter Well-Known Member

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    After Lenin and Stalin none of the Soviet leaders was even comparable to these war criminals that lead Russia today. Non of them wanted an all out war like Putin wants it. Soviet kids were raised in the sense they had the better system, but not with that degree of irrational hatred for Americans or their allies.

    When it comes to Lenin and Stalin, yes, they were mass murderers and war criminals, genocidal maniacs. After them none of them was even close to Putin and his oligarch regime.

    The SU was the bigger rival, more dangerous in the sense, that it was a rival of a similar power of the US, but a rival that acted rational, never going hazard in an all out war.

    If you compare the rivalry between the US and the SU in the Cold War era as one of two big Siberian and American bears behaving territorial, trying to impress and scare each other, nowadays a pitbull like you replaces the Siberian bear. Its not a rival in the same league but he is willing to kill and must be put down at some point.
     
  15. Glücksritter

    Glücksritter Well-Known Member

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    The answer you give for the 2nd question would be corrrect for the first one as well. Biden is a man of half-measures. He didnt give the Ukraine the support he could have given, too much to die, too few and too slow to live.



    Why should DJT be loyal to Putin under these circumstances?

    For the Ukraine everything here is a gamble.
     
  16. Vitaliy

    Vitaliy Active Member

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    Why did you decide that Putin wants an all-out war? It was not Putin who approached the borders of the United States, but NATO approached the borders of Russia.

    And why did you decide that children in Russia are brought up in "irrational hatred of Americans"? This is a complete lie.
     
  17. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    awwwww how sad....you should have joined when you had the chance then huh...before your Putin lad became grand poobah of the Tikon/Malofeev/Dugin cult of f**ked-up weirdos
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2023
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  18. Vitaliy

    Vitaliy Active Member

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    What do you think - should I be happy about this?
     
  19. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    sure.....why not.....have a big grin and a chuckle....:)
     
  20. Vitaliy

    Vitaliy Active Member

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    Are you kidding me? How to talk to you in this case? Go to the circus to work
     
  21. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    NATO had to expend due to the likely hood of Russia expanding and trying to rebuild its lost empire. Putin flat out telegrammed that Russian policy then he invaded Ukraine the first time ( in this century) in 2014.
     
  22. Vitaliy

    Vitaliy Active Member

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    And NATO does not have a "probable expansion", but already a real one. Well, in this case, who should have more cause for concern?
     
  23. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    NATO had to expand as a defensive measure. Remember that the EU and NATO go together like a hand in glove except for a small group of countries that are in NATO but not the EU and vice versa. Two new just joined due to the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
     
  24. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    ....:D:D....
     
  25. Glücksritter

    Glücksritter Well-Known Member

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    Thats simply following his own demands for territories of the former SU, which he knows it will lead to an all-out war. You just have to read translations of his state media and the commentators there. Until he really started the war with the Ukraine, one could argue maybe its just propaganda for inner reasons ...

    This possibility is off the table imo. You are at least closer to the truth if you take Putin himself as well as the commentators in the Russian state media seriously and word by word.


    And its Putin who speaks openly about claiming the Baltic States e.g. for himself. It is Putin who didnt give even a second thought to start a war with the Ukraine which killed already hundred thousands of his own soldiers and hundred thousands of Ukrainians.

    I dont know if you think the wicked Russian commentators from the state media are not translated and heard in the West, if so, you are wrong.
     

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