At Least 300 Dead In GAZA HOSPITAL BOMBING

And subsequently this means Gaza is occupied.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli-occupied_territories
In January 2012, the spokesperson for the UN Secretary General stated that under resolutions of the Security Council and the General Assembly, the UN still regards Gaza to be a part of the Occupied Palestinian Territory

Well well. Look who got it right.

 

I'm not taking your word for it. You claimed you can not fit 200 people there. The US has no problem to think up to 300 people who died there as plausible. It says nothing how many they think they were there, but it's undoubtingly far more than the 300 people who died. So obviously, you got absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/19/...nce-assessment-gaza-hospital-blast/index.html

It just looks like you're just guessing and mixing it with your agenda ... again and again.

 

Well we disagree...... if you have your way, Israel is annihilated. Guess what? You don't get your way! Israel will hunt down Hamas and destroy them. They have hostages but they can't hold the whole country hostage for destruction. Citizens who willfully allow themselves to be used as shields and show their children anti-semitic propaganda deserve anything they get!

 

Oh it's very relevant! How much $$ and effort was spent on those tunnels? How many Institutions of education would that money have built? Sure, now their economy has been destroyed but that is what happens when you invade a country and commit atrocities!

 

I haven't looked at your 428 since first time. I rarely read irrelevant opinons twice. People unable to see the facts for themselves but have opinions on what something means, can't be educated about them either- they usually don't want to think otherwise. That's a personal decision unrelated to the accuracy of facts.

And that's not my problem- it's yours.

 

His post has already been debunked, but he doesn't understand what international law or what how it functions. I tried explaining that international law applies to the members of the treaties that agreed to them... a basic fact that he somehow denies.

I also explained that loss of civilian life is acceptable if the anticipated military advantage warrants it... something his own link states. He also denied that.

I even explained that Israel warns residents to evacuate before bombing, doing more than any other nation does during war to limit the civilian loss of life knowing Hamas uses people as human shields. Again, fell on deaf ears.

When pointed out that Hamas directly targets civilians with no known military benefit he runs away and pretends he didn't hear the argument and just repeats that Israel, not Hamas, has been violating international law. This particular user also has a history of whining about "Aryans and Jews" on this forum on issues that have had nothing to do with Jews, so I guess we all know where their views are coming from...

 

Yes, it has been adequately established-- and acknowledged by all or most, I'd thought-- that this rocket had been a rocket gone awry, fired by Islamic Jihad. In fact, I have just heard that this rocket was supposedly supplied to them, by North Korea.

But those facts, do not imply that the death toll was "all lies." The reason that the explosion of this rocket, was larger than those rockets are known for, is because it had broken from its flight path so early, that it had a lot of unspent fuel (which would normally have been used, before impact). This is a reason why regular Palestinians, who certainly would not expect to be fired on by a Palestinian group, could have very easily made the mistaken assumption, that it had been an Israeli missile. Yes, Hamas knew the truth-- but the overwhelming majority of Palestinians, are not Hamas. Even those in charge of public health, who were appointed by Hamas, I am sure weren't contacted by the military wing, to have this intel shared with them. What I am saying, is there is no reason to assume that those accusing Israel, did not actually believe what they were saying-- they had merely been wrong. This happens not infrequently, in war (especially by those who are not military experts).

The additional fuel, generated a great deal of fire, on impact, which is what damaged the hospital, as well as killed those in the courtyard. If there were many Palestinians in that courtyard, which seems a very feasible possibility, then many would have died; as well as could have, a fair number in the hospital-- not from the initial blast, but from the subsequent fire. There is no reason, just because they'd mistaken the source of the munition, to assume there had not been a large number of casualties, from this tragic event. What are you suggesting-- that this was planned? On the contrary, Israeli intelligence picked up the conversation of Hamas, who had observed this unexpected accident.

Even if these casualties at the hospital were not directly caused by Israel, that doesn't mean that the Palestinians have cotton candy, raining down on them. There have been thousands of civilians who have so far died, in the air attacks.

 

would these deaths at the hospital have occurred if Hamas had not launched its murderous attack against Israel a couple weeks ago?

 

Yes, that is just your, to all appearances, baseless opinion. It frankly, sounds like the argument of a child-- I almost feel as if I should respond by saying "Well I'm rubber, and you're glue..." But that is just my opinion; others may feel differently.

I will just note, that you offered your little hissy fit, in lieu of any attempt at debunking my arguments ("irrational" as they supposedly are). This does not seem coincidental, as you have taken this course with me in the past, when you are stumped for a logical counter-argument, to resort to trying to indict my character. But believe me: based on the character that you display throughout the forum, your charges are as meaningless to me, as my points, you are unable to answer, are without value, to you.

For the road, I will quote the last of your baseless insinuations, which seems to be the only thing you have any talent for making:

Of course, as usual, you offer no example of my making excuses for Hamas, or of my blaming their enemies-- as I had done neither of these things. Odd though, that you would try to participate in a debate thread, specifically about this incident, with the attitude that you wouldn't want to interact with anyone who you perceive as having a different opinion, than your own.

 

The civilians deaths occurring are completely on Hamas.

I look forward to hearing that Hamas and their supporters are completely destroyed.

 

The "what if," argument, is a pointless one, as I will simply respond, "Would Hamas have made its attack, if Israel had not imposed a strict blockade on Gaza, for the last 17 years?" It is foolishness to go down this road, because it will only lead us back to the 1940s.

Besides, I am not pleading Hamas's case-- if you thought otherwise, then you are really lost. The post of mine that you'd quoted, had been addressing someone who was concluding, from the fact that initial reports of the origin of this ordnance had been incorrect, that therefore the death toll had also been "all lies." I had explained, that this is not a logical deduction.

Nor does your "reply" to my post, seem at all, to logically follow.

 

OK here is my position. Hamas is responsible for every death that occurs since its attack on Israel two weeks ago

 

Absolving any military of responsibility for civilian deaths, thank goodness, is not considered legal, by the civilized world-- but you're entitled to your opinion.

 

Too bad I didn't see your reply "a moment ago," as that is when I'd replied to the same viewpoint, claimed by Moolk. So you can just read along with him, if that's OK.

 

if Legal had any impact here, Hamas would have been in jail decades ago.

My favorite reference is this

 

I guess international law, was not your forté, either. Hamas's acts are illegal. But terrorist organizations are not particularly well known, for following the law. Typically, international agreements, like this, are between nations.

 

since you constantly pretend that you know international law better than I do, what law school did you earn a law degree in. Hamas a national actor since it is the government of Gaza.

 

Please spare me the pissing contests. Your point had apparently been that International Law does not exist, or else Hamas would be in jail-- right? This is a ridiculous argument. There are conventions of war, and war crimes can be charged, as we have seen in the case of Vladimir Putin. But note that no one is going in, and arresting Vlad, either. It would seem that if those charged, do not willingly turn themselves in, or are not part of a vanquished force, in the custody of the victor nation, then international warrants are issued, and the person is apprehended, when they leave their own country. I guess Hamas leaders don't do a lot of travelling, or else they do so, under the radar.

To the point though: this doesn't make it all right for Israel to adopt terrorist tactics. If you don't understand this, then I wouldn't only be "pretending" to have a better grasp on int'l law, than you do.

 

So, you are okay with reprisal against a collective?

 

Whoa there pardner!!! There have been no elections in Gaza for well over a decade.

 

The fuel for those rockets seen in the barrage had all been used up within seconds of launch as seen by the ignited fuel tail. They do not carry enough fuel to cause that explosion

And more and more people, including Human Rights are saying that the audio was fake

 

I suspect that you simply won't ever admit the truth here. Why Hamas haven't actually tried to improve the lives of their citizens is the war crime. The Crime against humanity. Hamas did this. You continue to clap.

 

So, yes, you are clapping for palestinian war crimes and crimes against humanity. That much is clear.

 

We have yet to get any credible information as to how many people, if any, actually died there- but we do have credible information that shows the reports from Hamas were fabrication. Lies. Propaganda.
We don't know for example if it was an event orchestrated by Hamas for the publicity value- that is a possibility, and we do know Hamas has no problem using their own to do that.

Before you argue if the bodies would fit in a parking lot- you need to know, positively, how many bodies exist.

The only credible information I've found is from Reuters news, who says there was blood found there, has no reference to bodies. That doesn't confirm a single death, only confirms that there were injuries.
Gives no indication of how many were injured or the extent of injury.

Intelligence ESTIMATES in your quoted CNN article say 100-300 may have been killed but thought the low end of that was more probable. It specifically states it's speculation- assumption, not facts. That is not definitive in any way- it could be that 100 should be the high end and was doubtful. It could be None.

Come back to that argument AFTER there is some credible documentation of body count. That still would not resolve how they came to die there, because even the Hamas people acknowledged in internal phone conservations that the shrapnel of the rocket showed it was not Israeli.

Your extreme bias taints everything you have said about this subject. To me, that makes everything you have said extremely doubtful. Zero credibility.

This is not about being Palestinian or Israeli- it's about being a civil people who respect others, or being butchers who don't. IF Israel wanted to be butchers, there wouldn't be any Palestinians left.

If Hamas was large enough and powerful enough, there wouldn't be any Israelis left.... But then, because they would still be butchers, they would turn to the next target. That is who they are. Butchers. That is a fundamental state of mind that can't be negotiated away. They cannot become "nice" people.

It's not which hat they wear, it's how they think and how they act that divides these people, and until there is an honest meeting of minds, physical barriers, policies and power are necessary to control the threats and protect the the Israeli people. The hate cultivated by Hamas and terrorists is an on-going threat, not only to Israel but to the rest of the world. The peace that is needed here will not be possible so long as that exists, and that is solely in the hands of the Muslims.

Just wasting my time here, you aren't going to expand your understanding one iota. But that won't be my fault.

 

There you go.....proof you are in favor of the Muslims. If Hamas does it it is an "unexpected accident" even if it does kill "civilians". Your bias in favor of terrorists is apparent to most because if Israel has an "unexpected accident" or it is perceived as such, you are ALL OVER IT as in the OP.

Just shared an example.

You only plead in a way that hopes you will not get caught.

When will you start a thread about the October 7th massacre and share details of the torture and horrors inflicted by Hamas? You don't mention ANY of their actions and how it pertains to our "civilized world". Why don't you just come out like your "Uncle Joe" and express sorrow that in this instance "Hamas didn't shoot straight".