Israeli plan to ethnically cleanse Gaza

Touché

 

Anyone remotely familiar with logic or history knows that Israel. as the occupying power of Gaza, can not declare war on civilians it has a legal duty and responsibility to protect.

"Church leaders say Israeli troops killed 2 women and injured 7 others at parish"

https://www.npr.org/2023/12/22/1221...oops-killed-2-women-and-injured-7-others-at-p

 

Israel will claim that it was Hamas's explosives, not them.


"Israeli strike kills 76 members of one Gaza family, rescue officials say as combat expands in south'

'Israel strikes 2 homes, killing more than 90 Palestinians. Biden says he didn’t request a cease-fire'
Source: AP

By NAJIB JOBAIN and SAMY MAGDY
Updated 4:49 AM CST, December 23, 2023

RAFAH, Gaza Strip (AP) — An Israeli airstrike killed 76 members of an extended family, rescue officials said Saturday, a day after the U.N. chief warned again that nowhere is safe in Gaza and that Israel’s ongoing offensive is creating “massive obstacles” to the distribution of humanitarian aid.

Friday’s strike on a building in Gaza City was among the deadliest of the Israel-Hamas war, now in its 12th week, said Mahmoud Bassal, a spokesman for Gaza’s Civil Defense department. He provided a partial list of the names of those killed — 16 heads of households from the al-Mughrabi family — and said the dead included women and children.

Among the dead were Issam al-Mughrabi, a veteran employee of U.N. Development Program, his wife, and their five children.

“The loss of Issam and his family has deeply affected us all. The U.N. and civilians in Gaza are not a target,” said Achim Steiner, the head of the agency. “This war must end.”




Read more: https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-12-23-2023-982fae4d0802b20d2a90423445c9f64b

 

Anyone remotely familiar with logic or history knows that during the war there are civilian casualties, especially when terrorists hide in private homes, hospitals, synagogs or churches. It happened before during wwii, Vietnam War, Iraqi and Afghanistan war, Korean War and almost any other war.

 

Yes, and were regularly the objects of mob violence.

 

Sorry, but diplomatic proceedings are not democracy.

 

https://reason.com/volokh/2023/12/23/israel-gaza-and-selective-historical-memory/

points many ignore

the State of Palestine was strangled in its infancy, not by the Israelis, who accepted the U.N. partition plan, but by the neighboring Arab States—Egypt, Syria, and Jordan—who did not. The day after the British pulled their forces out, the Arab armies marched in, and the first Arab-Israeli War began.

2, For almost two decades, beginning in 1949, the Arab states controlled most of the land that was to have been incorporated into the state of Palestine, and, during that period, they did absolutely nothing to hand control over to the Palestinians so as to re-constitute the Palestinian state envisaged by the UN Resolution.

The Islamist nations still use the Palestinians as pawns

 

You are quoting the Balfour declaration of 1917 here.

So, purchasing land is immoral?
Where I live, the average Canadian cannot afford to purchase a new a home because of intense, rapid immigration and foreign speculation. Does that mean blood should flow in the street?

Those don’t really sound like terrorist targets. I am aware of the King David hotel bombing which was targeting the British, but the targets above sound more like strategic targets than terrorist targets,

The article doesn’t really say much about acquiring land through terrorism. I know that when the seven Arab nations invaded Israel in 1948, Israel fought them off but they remained in the Gaza Strip and West Bank.

I can only imagine how traumatizing it was for Palestinians to lose their lands when the Israelis enforced the boundaries set by the UN.

I think that Palestinians could have avoided that by not rioting and fighting during the 20 years leading up to the 1948 war.

 

Greedy racists often confuse wars between nation states with the ethnic cleansing that illegal occupations/blockades inflict on innocent civilians in pursuit of colonizing more land:

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...-springs/0000017f-da83-d432-a77f-df9b89b00000

"As the occupying power of the Gaza Strip, and the Palestinian Territories more broadly, Israel has an obligation and a duty to protect the civilians under its occupation.

"It governs by military and law enforcement authority to maintain order, protect itself and protect the civilian population under its occupation.

"It cannot simultaneously occupy the territory, thus usurping the self-governing powers that would otherwise belong to Palestinians, and declare war upon them.

https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/five-israeli-talking-points-gaza-debunked/

 

Not unless incoming immigrants are loudly proclaiming their intentions to turn indigenous Canadians into a second class minority cohort which is exactly what many of those early European Jews migrating to Palestine were doing. Asset price inflation is a huge problem in the US, but I tend to blame the greedy parasites who profit from mass murder in places like Ukraine and Gaza not immigrants.

 

I believe there is always a duty to protect civilians wherever possible and that Israel has abandoned that duty in the current conflict.

That being said, isn’t Hamas the governing power of Gaza?

 

Hamas governs without any effective control over Gaza's land borders, coastal waters, population registry, electricity generation, and internet service.

Israel's illegal blockade of Gaza includes military operations that have included airstrikes. ground incursions, and naval blockades responsible for the murder of tens of thousands Gazan civilians.

In 2019 Netanyahu told his Likud colleagues anyone who wants to prohibit a two-state solution must continue to support Hamas in Gaza.

https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/five-israeli-talking-points-gaza-debunked/

"Israel argues that its occupation of the Gaza Strip ended with the unilateral withdrawal of its settler population in 2005.

"It then declared the Gaza Strip to be 'hostile territory' and declared war against its population.

"Neither the argument nor the statement is tenable.

"Despite removing 8,000 settlers and the military infrastructure that protected their illegal presence, Israel maintained effective control of the Gaza Strip and thus remains the occupying power as defined by Article 47 of the Hague Regulations.

"To date, Israel maintains control of the territory’s air space, territorial waters, electromagnetic sphere, population registry and the movement of all goods and people."

 

Some of what you wrote is true. From 2005 Hamas have effective control of things going inside Gaza, but have no control over borders and costal water. Why? Because Israel tried to prevent import of something which for people of Gaza is much more important than food and medicine – arms!

Who is to blame that Gaza does not have enough food, water and electricity? It is a fault of Qatar, UN and European countries who did not give Hamas enough money to develop missiles, rockets, underground attack tunnels and also to import medicine, to create water treatment and electricity sources, so poor Hamas had to invest received money only in most important tasks. This is the reason today in Gaza there is no enough food, no enough medicine, no enough water, but more than enough rockets that even today Hamas shoots them on Israel.

Did Israel attack Gaza after Hamas shot rockets on Israel? Unfortunately yes. Somehow Israel is not ready to accept the fact that Palestinians have basic human right to murder Jews and to shoot missiles on Israel and Israel has no right to respond. I have no idea why Israelis do not understand it, did they not read Quran were Allah clearly said:

“The Day of Judgment will not come until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say, 'O Muslim, O servant of God, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.' Only the Gharkad tree would not do that, because it is one of the trees of the Jews.”.

Does Netanyahu oppose a two-state solution? Yes, he used Hamas as a proof that two state solution is impossible. But lets think for a moment – lets imagine that few years ago Israel attacked Gaza in order to destroy Hamas - what would be the reaction of Mr. georgephillip and some other people from this forum? My bet – will be the same as today.

 

Your logic fails on an obvious point. You don't have a German refugee problem because there is a Germany. You don't have an Indian refugee problem because there is an India. You don't have a Pakistani refugee problem because you have a Pakistan. You don't have a Vietnamese refugee problem because there is a Vietnam.

As far as Jewish, it was considered a religion rather than a race for the longest period of time and many efforts were made to convert rather than drive out the Jewish religion. The idea of Jews as a race and political power rose with socialism and Marxism. Zionism was supported by these Jew-haters who wanted all the Jews out of Europe and hoped to send them overseas like the Puritans. Even Nazi Germany paid to send its Jews to Palestine.



I find it funny that you quote Noam Chomsky yet fail in believing most anything he wrote. Since anyone who knows Noam knows he opposes Israel.

Noam like many Socialists consider public Corporations to be Capitalist when in practice, they are socialist institutions. They are owned by the public and are not privately owned.

 

Israel prevents Gaza from having all of these things. Yet, you want to blame someone else . . .

Israel attacked Gaza well before then. In December 1947, right after the partition gave it to the Palestinians. Israel has been attacking Gaza and forcing Palestinians there ever since.

Rockets are irrelevant in comparison.

"I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins."
"Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
" And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

Yep, the Christians believe the Jews will all be defeated too. Is that why you support the murder of Palestinian Christians by Israel as well.

 

Wait a minute. The UN partition gave Gaza and West Bank to Palestinians and the rest to Israel. Israel was then invaded by 7 Arab countries and drove those Arabs back to the partition borders. Why do you guys always leave that out of your narrative? It’s as intellectually dishonest as refusing to condemn Hamas for terrorism.

You would find the rockets relevant if they killed your family.

Israel has the right to defend itself from the very relevant rockets.

What does a quote from the racist bible have to do with anything?

 

Can you explain how Hamas has effective control of things going into Gaza without controlling land borders and coastal waters?

International law offers a three part test for "effective control":

https://lieber.westpoint.edu/question-whether-gaza-occupied-territory/

"(1) the physical presence of armed forces without the consent of the government in place at the time of the invasion; (2) the inability of the government in place to exercise its powers by virtue of the foreign forces’ presence; and (3) the foreign forces are in a position to exercise authority over the territory in lieu of the government.

"These components are still the subject of debate."

 

Asking Hamas to give up power and trust Netanyahu to boot?
Who were those that thought up this DOA "vision"?


'Hamas, Islamic Jihad reject giving up power in return for permanent ceasefire, Egyptian sources say'
Source: Reuters

CAIRO, Dec 25 (Reuters) - Hamas and the allied Islamic Jihad have rejected an Egyptian proposal that they relinquish power in the Gaza Strip in return for a permanent ceasefire, two Egyptian security sources told Reuters on Monday.

Both groups, which have been holding separate talks with Egyptian mediators in Cairo, rejected offering any concessions beyond the possible release of more hostages seized on Oct. 7 when militants broke into southern Israel, killing 1,200 people.

Egypt proposed a "vision", also backed by Qatari mediators, that would involve a ceasefire in exchange for the release of more hostages, and lead to a broader agreement involving a permanent ceasefire along with an overhaul of leadership in Gaza, which is currently led by Hamas.

Egypt proposed elections while offering assurances to Hamas that its members would not be chased or prosecuted, but the Islamist group rejected any concessions other than hostage releases, the sources said. More than 100 hostages are still believed to be held in Gaza.'

Read more: https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...turn-permanent-ceasefire-egyptian-2023-12-25/

 

That's what's called Kool-Aid.

Not a single Arab country had attacked in December 1947.

It's all explained here:



National Socialists refuse to read this book.

That's like saying it's intellectually dishonest to not condemn the U.S. for attacking the NAZIs on D-day. Your claim of intellectual dishonesty is intellectually immoral.

The Irish used what you called "terrorism" to gain freedom from the British.

The South Africans used what you call "terrorism" to gain freedom from Apartheid.

The Americans used "terrorism" to gain freedom from the British.

Nat Turner used "terrorism".

Toussaint Louverture used "terrorism".

The Palestinians have been very restrained in their violence in comparison.

Hamas Rockets have not killed an entire family, you need an F-35 with a 2,000 lb JDAM to do that.

I would not be happy if one of my family members were killed. However, I would not start murdering Black children and babies just because the perpetrator was also Black. Or call for the indiscriminate bombing of Mexico because a Mexican killed my family member. Yet, that sort of racist National Socialist mentality is what your post promotes.

He quoted the Quran, I quoted the Bible. Keep up.

 

You are correct. Palestine was still under UN mandate until 1948. As soon as that ended, the Palestinians and Arab neighbors attacked.

 

My mistake - I chose wrong word, I should write 'From 2005 Hamas have effective control of things happens inside Gaza.

 

Israel prevented Hamas from investing hundreds million of dollars they received from Qatar, UN and Europe to invest in hospitals, schools, tourism, water treatment plants, electricity utilities and forced Hamas to invested all resources in building underground attack tunnels, arms and missiles? Wow - this Israelis are so bad and Hamas is so good.
What do you think - Hamas was too stupid to guess that Israel will respond with force on Oct 7 attack, or maybe Hamas was thinking the attack and Israeli response this is exactly what Palestinian people need?

We talked about it many times - Jews accepted UN decision to to split Palestine to Jewish and Arabs parts, Arabs refused and attacked Israel. During Israeli Independence War/Nakba Israel expelled SOME Arabs with conquered territories, Arabs expelled ALL Jews from conquered territories, and Arabs lost. Until 1967 Gaza was under Egyptian occupation and Egypt did not allow to create a Palestinian state, West Bank was under Jordan occupation and Jordan did not allowed Palestinian state. After 1967 Israel proposed peace in exchange for territories conquered in 6 days war, and Arab countries responded with the famous Khartoum "The Three No's": no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with Israel.
And here we are today.

I am not an expert of the Bible or Christians, but I know that generally Christians support Israel:
https://www.christianitytoday.com/n...stine-war-christian-views-survey-lifeway.html

https://www.meconcern.org/2017/05/23/palestine-killer-of-christian-identified/

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2007/4/22/326331/-

 

True

I'm pretty sure Hamas was surprised by how far Israel would take their Hannibal doctrine on October 7.

Never happened.

Nice to know you agree that the Palestinians were not involved.

No Arabs were expelled. The Palestinians were expelled.

Yes, Egypt was interested in territorial conquest just like the Israelis.

Yes, Jordan made a treaty with Israel to divide Palestine between the two of them. It was like the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

Not all of them.

Once again, you're admitting the Palestinians were not involved.

I'll agree to that.

Wow! You don't realize that Israel rejects the two-state solution?

Yet supposedly 81% of so-called Christians support it?

Might most Americans just be ignorant and stupid about Israel?

While others are just National Socialist Sons of Satan.

 

Blame lies with those responsible for inflicting an illegal occupation (war crime) on indigenous Palestinians:

https://www.globalr2p.org/countries...assing the Gaza,occupied by Israel since 1967.

"Palestinian territory – encompassing the Gaza Strip and West Bank, including East Jerusalem – has been occupied by Israel since 1967.

"Various UN officials and investigative mechanisms have reaffirmed that Israel’s permanent occupation of Palestinian territory has no legal validity and has resulted in de facto annexation, which may amount to a war crime."

Perhaps some greedy Israelis are planning their new beach houses a bit prematurely?

"As genocide unfolds, Israel settlers plan ‘dream’ beach house in Gaza"

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/2...rael-settlers-plan-dream-beach-house-in-gaza/

 

The Palestinians had their chance for peace and partition in 1948, but chose war instead. At every possible turning point since then they have again chosen war. They have been beaten every time, and their current predicament is the result of decades of political foolishness and military incompetence. They have only themselves to blame, and only they are responsible for all the civilian deaths.