The Lie of Cheap Renewable Energy

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by Jack Hays, Mar 19, 2023.

  1. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    The bill for reality is coming due.
    Cheap Renewables? British OFGEN Issues 48 Hour Price Hike Warning
    Eric Worrall
    The British Government could bring rapid energy price relief by issuing permits to UK based fracking company Caudrilla. But this would undermine Net Zero policies.

    Households issued urgent 48-hour warning as energy bills to rise by £94

    Ofgem said rising costs are driven by market instability and global conflicts such as Ukraine

    Holly Evans

    Households have been issued an urgent 48-hour warning to submit meter readings ahead of a £94 increase to the average home energy bill, which is due to come into effect on 1 January.

    Ofgem is increasing its price cap in response to rising wholesale prices, which has been driven because of market instability and global events, particularly the conflict in Ukraine.

    The regulator’s price cap is rising by 5 per cent from the current £1,834 for a typical dual fuel household to £1,928 from Monday, with households urged to submit readings before New Year’s Day to ensure they are charged correctly.

    Read more: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/energy-bills-rise-ofgem-meter-readings-b2471190.html

    Britain sits on a lake of natural gas, 6.5 billion cubic feet under Lancashire alone. Caudrilla’s original test well in 1993 within 7 weeks of commencement was connected to the gas system, generating a steady supply of cheap energy. But the British Government since then has thrown every obstacle they can think of in the path of Caudrilla CEO Francis Egan.

    One stroke of a politician’s pen could bring energy price relief to millions of British families.

    How long are Britons going to continue believing the lies they’ve been fed, about the alleged dangers of global warming and fracking? At what point do Britons stop passively accepting the latest energy price hike, and demand energy self sufficiency solutions which could be implemented in weeks or months, instead of accepting yet another round of pathetic excuses about the international situation?
     
  2. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Except calling names you didn't prove a thing. I have no idea if wind/solar energy is cheaper or not, but to convince me I want to see all costs, you didn't do it.
     
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  3. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    It would appear that a major source of "levelized cost of energy" claims is engaged in sleight-of-hand (or outright fraud?) to promote wind and solar power.
    Climate Advocacy: Incompetence Versus Intentional Fraud -- Lazard Edition
    December 17, 2023/ Francis Menton
    [​IMG]

    • My last post, on December 14, asked readers, when considering climate advocacy journalism and reports promoting wind- or solar-generated energy, to ask themselves whether the author is merely incompetent versus perhaps committing intentional fraud. The post focused on a particular piece that had been published in November in euronews.green, byline Lauren Crosby Medlicott.

    • In that piece, Ms. Medlicott had egregiously cherrypicked some operating data from the Spanish El Hierro Island wind/storage electricity system to make it appear that that system is a success, when in fact it is a disastrous failure. Could this really have been mere incompetence on her part, or was Ms. Medlicott intentionally seeking to deceive her readers?

    • Ms. Medlicott’s piece was so appalling that I was unable just to let it pass. On the other hand, to be honest, Ms. Medlicott is a relatively small fish in the climate advocacy game. Are the larger fish any more honest?

    • . . . . Now, consider the question of whether cost figures in the Lazard Report are the result of rank incompetence versus intentional deception. Could the people at Lazard who produce all these fancy and complex charts and graphs really not know that 4 hour duration batteries cycling once per day are not going to come close to solving the intermittency problems of wind and solar generation? Or do they really know that, and they are just hoping to sell a few hundreds of billions of dollars worth of wind turbines and solar panels before the stupid politicians and investors figure out the scam?

    READ MORE
     
  4. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    See this is where your stance on this makes no sense. The energy sector is run by capitalists, stinking filthy rich a-holes of capitalists but still capitalists. They are the ones investing in renewables and really they wouldn’t be doing that if there was not a coin or two in it
     
  5. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    There's money in renewables because lucrative subsidies are available. But there's no reliable, inexpensive power in renewables.
    And btw, the major investments are still in fossil fuels.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2023
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  6. Pieces of Malarkey

    Pieces of Malarkey Well-Known Member

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    Wrong again. The energy sector is largely run by public utilities. "Profits" as such are managed by government oversight boards. They pretty much have to do whatever the politically motivated oversight people say they have to do.

    And right now, the physics deniers pretty much control the politicals.

    For the moment anyways.
     
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  7. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Not all the way around the world it isn’t. I keep hitting this odd “gee it must be like America everywhere” thinking . But as usual you have not backed your claims

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_electric_companies

    And what I have discovered online appears to be at variance with your claims
     
  8. Pieces of Malarkey

    Pieces of Malarkey Well-Known Member

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    What you have uncovered is useless, as usual. They're not run by the investors. They're not profit motivated. On purpose.

    And probably for the hundredth time, what happens in Australia is none of my business. What happens in the US appears to be none of yours.
     
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  9. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, no. All the public utilities you listed have their rates set by government commissions.
     
  10. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    And this happens worldwide?
     
  11. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    And for the thousandth time post validation of your claims
     
  12. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    You selected the examples.
     
  13. Pieces of Malarkey

    Pieces of Malarkey Well-Known Member

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    Who cares about worldwide?

    A public utility in this country can't really be run as a for-profit company because it's not practical to have, say, two electric companies with separate distribution systems running in the same jurisdiction.

    So one company gets the whole jurisdiction and government sets rates, etc. For investors, utilities are pretty bland and safe investments. Nobody can make huge money but also nobody loses money. A very safe investment.

    If you want big returns, you accept big risks in the private sector.

    You are free to do your own research.
     
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  14. Sunsettommy

    Sunsettommy Well-Known Member

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    Here is an excellent example of a PUD,

    Benton P.U.D.

    LINK
     
  15. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    I did? I “selected examples” from the world? But even in the states power generation is done by private companies nd even IF the utility groups were setting prices etc the companies would soon go out of business if it were not profitable
     
  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    So - translation - I cannot back up my assertions
     
  17. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    And this is supposed to prove what? Is this company about to go broke because of renewables?
     
  18. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about AUS, but here in US public utilities are being required to ensure their power is the proper mix of renewables and fuel plants. Biden gang of useful idiots is planning on increasing the mix in favor of renewables. Here in California they're debating continuing operation of one nuke plant because renewables are producing enough to meet projected demand and more fuel plants are taken offline.
     
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  19. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Question - are the companies going broke?
     
  20. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    I replied to your specific question and specific examples. Then you asked whether your examples were applicable worldwide. That's a question for you, not me.
    Renewables are attractive to investors mainly for the subsidies they convey and the regulatory favor they engender.
    At the macro level, private sector investment in fossil fuels continues to be robust and, btw:
    [​IMG]
    U.S. oil production hit a record under Biden. He seldom mentions it.
    By Evan Halper and Toluse Olorunnipa
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2024
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  21. Pieces of Malarkey

    Pieces of Malarkey Well-Known Member

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    Of course. You never seem to require yourself to back up your assertions.

    Mostly because you can't.

    So, you want to take a shot at proving how you think public utilities work in the US?

    Of course not.
     
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  22. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Not my claim to validate mate. My assertion is that where there are private companies they will look for a way to maintain profitability. Even IF those companies are regulated profitability is still paramount. If, as claimed. Renewables are far dearer than those companies would fail. Apart from some weird bloke writing blogs virtually no one reads I cannot see where renewables are not cheaper than fossil fuel generated power. All the big economic magazines all seem to say renewable energy - especially wind power is cheaper than fossil fuel.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source
    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/levelized-cost-of-energy
    https://www.iea.org/reports/projected-costs-of-generating-electricity-2020
     
  23. Pieces of Malarkey

    Pieces of Malarkey Well-Known Member

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    So prove it. Those links say nothing about it.
     
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  24. Sunsettommy

    Sunsettommy Well-Known Member

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    LINK from US news
     
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  25. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

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    I'm not a tree hugger by any stretch. And I'm not out to save the world. I will never buy an electric car of my own free will. But I have gone totally solar. I used to send about 500 bucks to the electric utility each month... and it was gone. Now send the same basic amount to pay off the loan I took for the solar panels, batteries, etc and BUILD EQUITY. And I don't worry about brown-outs or black-outs. I like it.
     
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