Is Jesus divine?

Indians by their own definition never owned land. I'll give you examples of white settlers that lived in peace with Indians who turned on a dime against them. Murdered women , children and unarmed men. Read about the massacre at lake Shetek. I say that because "white settlers" contrary to your belief, never had a monopoly on evil.
At the same time there were a good many whites at the founding of the Nation, who opposed slavery. So you can bask in your white guilt and shame America as long as you want. Shaming America is popular on the left.

 

You can read it for yourself. As for equality in freedom, it is much like Jesus birth into an unjust world. It takes time for people to come to the truth. Such was the practice of slavery done away in accordance with, and in following the concept. As for natives, they warred with one another repeatedly. The European culture clashed with the native culture and prevailed. How else are you to people and rule a nation without peopling and ruling the nation. All in all it united all tribes into one freedom and did away with the perpetual native warfare. It also brought many blessings to natives according to the European creativity. Show me a native who despises indoor plumbing, air conditioning, four wheel drive trucks, Winchester rifles, electricity, etc. The native population today is about three times greater than in 1776.

 

Fallen from what?

 

Yup. Our nation was born into a world awash in the tradition of slavery. And in less than a hundred years, we abolished it here. Our enemies don't see our accomplishment or our repentance for the cause of freedom and freedoms God, who has blessed us and the world thru our existence. They don't want to hear God justly praised or see our nations progress in truth. They look for fault, so as to murder hope. They are so predictable. They will all die and answer to God for their lives.

 

If they never claimed any land for themselves why did they fight for it to keep white men off the land? If I remember correctly they were allowed to keep parts of their tribal areas as a right. Looking at the state of the USA at the moment you would have been better joining one or other tribe.. Going back to bows and arrows would be a better option than guns and you could always take your wigwam down and move. No more costs of moving house.

 

The American Indian did not recognize property rights. They lived in anarchy. Those with power, lived where ever they wanted to. Many were nomadic. A few were farmers. The Taos Indians, for example, were farmers. They lived in pueblos with a wall around their compound. No doors or windows. (until european arrival that is) They entered their pueblos by ladders and a hole in the roof. Nomadic tribes raided, kidnapped, and enslaved their people. They often returned favor. This was an example of the way of life throughout this Continent. Not that way here anymore. The Indians I know can live on the Res, (where they have their own property recognized by the tribe) or they can assimilate with all the rights and freedoms of anyone.

It's been centuries since you lived like that across the pond, huh Trevor? Indians seldom fought in unison to keep white men out. In most all of our Indian wars, there were tribes fighting along whites to subdue their enemies. As in England, most of our murders are done with knives. I shoot my bow & arrows about three times a week. I would never go up against a rifle but I value all my rifles. As a free man, that is my right.

 

Trevor, I'll take the bait and explain because my oldest son bears your name.

We were created in perfection but because He desired "relationship" we were given "choice". Our common ancestor blew it for us all but we can restore relationship with our creator by the same option of choice. No, it is not the same as in the beginning. Our "nature" has become flawed. It's just an obvious fact. We fight and argue at the drop of the hat. However, by faith, we can restore that relationship and when we have developed through the trials in this life, we can come home to that original relationship.

You do understand, Trevor, even by earthly standards, we practice choice. You and I have had our heart broken many times. Love has it's conditions. God's love is unconditional and that is why we have our seperation with Him. It can and will be restored......at a price. His Son paid the price and through faith we can accept it. That is love, a free gift.

 

The Taos Indians 'They lived in pueblos with a wall around their compound. No doors or windows. (until european arrival that is) They entered their pueblos by ladders and a hole in the roof.' That was not claiming territory? Many tribes moved within their territories to follow their migrating food supplies. - animals. Certainly there were wars between tribes for teritorial gains. Some fought with the US Troops for 'rewards' or revenge on neighbouring tribes. Small nomadic tribes were often tolerated if they were not a threat. These areas were gradually eliminated as Europeans moved West.

 

Well the "evil white Americans" just beat them at their own game. That's all!
Here is something entertaining to read for my friend across the pond.(incidentally, the map you shared shows a period of time. The Apache in the southwest originated around Michigan).
he Battle of Plum Creek

TEXAS, AUGUST 1840

Under the Comanche moon of August 1840, 400 to 1000 warriors under Buffalo Hump cut a swath of destruction on a vengeance ride through the Rio Grande Valley. Attacking entire communities was a rarity as they usually fought guerilla style.

On August 6th, they swarmed over the town of Victoria, looting and killing. Linville, the seaport for San Antonio, was their next target. Buffalo Hump and his warriors easily took the town, as the locals escaped in boats. Judge John Hays was so enraged he came back to shore and waving his empty shotgun shouted at them. The Comanche ignored him and continued pillaging. It’s not known whether they respected his bravery or thought he was crazy. It wasn’t until afterwards that Hays realized his shotgun was unloaded.

Buffalo Hump’s warriors spent the entire day ravaging the town. But taking so much loot slowed them down and would lead to their undoing. They raided the customs house and murdered and scalped inspector Major Hugh Watts a Juliet. Mrs. Watts, a strikingly pretty, red-headed woman. They ripped off her dress but when they tried to gang rape her, they couldn’t figure how to get her whale-bone corset unraveled.

The warriors spent the entire day looting the warehouse filled with goods awaiting shipment to San Antonio. They created quite a spectacle, decorating themselves with frock coats and stovepipe hats. Some donned women’s dresses and petticoats while others strolled around sporting stylish parasols.

Meanwhile, several companies of Texas Rangers, led by such veteran fighting men as William “Big Foot” Wallace, John Coffee Hays, the McCulloch brothers, Ben and Henry, Mat “Old Paint” Caldwell, Ed Burleson, and John Tumlinson Jr. arrived and the Comanches headed back for the Llano Estacado.

Up to then they had been more interested in looting and that included 2,000 horses, until the Rangers arrived. They decided to lighten their load casting off plunder, which marked an easy trail for the Rangers to follow.

At Plum Creek, a branch of the San Marcos River, they began killing their prisoners. During their flight they had tied the unfortunate Mrs. Watts on the back of a horse and were taking her along but when they reached the creek, they decided to dispose of her. That complicated, man discouraging corset that saved her from being gang raped was about to save her again. They tied her to a tree and fired an arrow into her breast. Instead of killing her it lodged in her corset. When the Rangers arrived, she was alive but badly sunburned in places that seldom saw the sun.

To delay while, others moved on with the loot, the rear-guard warriors pranced and paraded, exhibiting amazing feats of horsemanship. Red ribbons streamed from their horses’ tails, as they rode around the Texans who were awed by the show of bravado. One wore a stovepipe hat; another had a pigeon-tailed coat. On their heads some wore immense buck and buffalo horns. Another had a headdress of a large white crane with red eyes.

One chief rode out and challenged the Rangers to individual combat. A rifle shot dropped him from his mount. The fight was on. Screaming and shooting the Texans stampeded the Comanche horse herd, scattering the warriors. Straying from their usual tactics of guerilla warfare was very uncharacteristic of the Comanche and they would pay dearly. The running fight went some 15 miles. The Texans lost only one, the Comanche’s more than eighty.

That night a victory celebration was held as the moon came up over Plum Creek. The cannibalistic Tonkawa Indians, acting as scouts for the Texans, held a victory dance and feasted mightily on the bodies of dead Comanche’s.

– True West Magazine

 

Again, you read somethings I never said.
I never claimed Natives OWNED land. But they did live on land. Occupied land. Settle on land.

They turned on a dime? Sure, you would also if someone came onto you property with the action of kicking you off of it. LOL. You condemn them for fighting for their homes? LOL.

But you are doing a great job of showing how god did not create everyone with equal opportunity.
You are showing how might made right. Via your god.

A good many whites? Just not in the South. And not among some of the founders.
More justification of your god and inequality.

 

I can read it for myself.
The question is, can you.
I see no reference to god. But you think you do. But you won't quote that part, so that should mean you are making it up.

Practice to come to truth?
Those people wrote the documents about how all men are created equal.
While making slavery legal and owing slaves themselves.
You are also justifying your god and equality while not actually believing what was written.

So you are in the might makes right camp and not all created equal camp. In order to justify running a nation.

 

There was no slavery in the land now called USA that was legal when it was born.
The founders and the south, made slavery here and legal.

All with the blessing of your god.
NOTE: Not from the founders god in any documents. For you are making up a god in founding documents.

 

That's simply your belief. There is no evidence of a supreme being - god.

Here's a question for you. Not a Biblical one.

Having been brought up in the Christian faith by 2 christian parents and having given - as I believed then - my life to Christ. Having spent years reading and studdying the Bible. Having given religious broadcasts over RAF station radios - I was in the RAF for 5 years. Having left the RAF and continuing my Bible Study and church attendance, taking over a small church when its elderly minister retired, continuing to lead with 4 services each week - Sunday morning teaching service, Sunday evening Gospel service, Tuesday Prayer meeting and Thursday Bible study, do you think it was easy - when my Bible studies led me to study the background to the Bible and the impossibility of events etc in the Bible. To ignore this learning and continue as I was would simply have been hypocritical. As I have posted before the Nativity stories are simply cobbled together if you study them against the background of the day. A study of the OT and Jesus the Jewish teachers words show he preached Judaism. The Gospel writers threw in a few of their own ideas of what Jesus was.

What would you do if everything you believed were suddenly proved false?

 

Still trying to justify equal opportunities while using god to steal other peoples lands.

 

If you feel it was stolen, then protect your "virtue" and leave! Please!!

 

From all your activity, it seems you may have suffered "burnout". Did you spend nearly enough time alone with God?

I am in admiration of your service, Sir. I mean that. I did my diligence and studied how the Bible was put together for about a year before I believed. Prior to that I had done all kinds of searching. I did most of that searching at a Pubic Library. You had one benefit I didn't. A Christian Father and Mother. In the eyes of a child, the Father is the Supreme being unless directed otherwise. He makes dictates for no other reason than to say "I said so". When he fails, or proves wrong that child searches elsewhere. As a Father myself I always pointed to the One who was greater than I. That I look to Him for clarity and that I am fallible.

As to your question "What would you do if everything you believed were suddenly proved false?" I will answer this way..... First with another question "by whose standards would it be proven false?" Secondly, I would say in all honesty, "I would believe it anyway. I can think of no better way to live and trust even if I believed there was to be a dirtnap and then it was all over." However I do believe the Bible is God inspired and protected. The advent of the printing press was also God inspired and made His Word available to all mankind to search for themselves.

Having been in the RAF and in radio broadcasting I am sure you are very familiar with C.S. Lewis! Remarkable!!

 

You can't have it both ways. On the one hand, you deny we are a Christian Nation, founded under the auspice of a loving Creator, then you turn around and condemn America from "stealing " land in the name of God. Actually, dairyair, there was the godless, like you, that lended quite a hand in settling and occupying the land.

 

It wasn't intended to cover all era's. It does show that areas were 'claimed' by certain tribes.

 

Standards? Proof is proof by any standards. What I have shown you can be proved by study of customs and proven history of the time when the Nativity.Crucifixion stories took place. And do youi believe that when Jesus died the curtain of the Temple was rent and the bodies of the dead rose from their graves and went into Jerusalem. Either that or the Bible is not true.
I am certainly aware of C.S.Lewis. However his views are simply his own. His Trilogy is really entertaining and imaginative. It is a good argument between evil and good. But proves nothing.

 

If you were to read about the indigenous philosophy/religion these people held, "no one could own mother earth". In other words, you only occupied what you could hold. That is anarchy. We occupy and have a system of law that surveys and records what is actually occupied by law and defended by the society that occupies this continent. All remaining tribes benefit from this order.
We have a lot of holier than thou virtue signalling white people that for some reason live the life of "white shame". They don't like our nation, period. In fact it may be true that some of them drew your map.

 

Yes, I believe. Can you prove the sun will come up next month?

 

Whats the difference between slavery and secondclass citizenship - still in operation today.
And many of your Christians go to church and worship Jesus. Then go out and support a man that has commited most of the sins condemned by Jesus.

American accomplishments that blessed us and the world.

 

So you can believe that bodies rose from the grave and went into Jerusalem to meet their relatives? Really?
What has the future got to do with the past? I'm not a prophet.
Such an event would not only be reported by the other Gospel writers - possibly as one of Jesus miracles - but by Josephus and the Romans and frighten the rest of Jerusalem. I hate to think what would be seen when the shrouds were taken off. Something never seen before. No mention anywhere but one book in the Bible.

 

When miracles have happened, there has always been unbelief by the blind.

 

I don't know what you mean by "second class citizenship". Every American has the same life, the same Constitutional rights, and is subject to the same laws, rules, and regulations. The average black family has a greater income than mine, due in part to my being on a fixed income. As for who we elect to represent us, if as you suggest they must be saints, then perhaps your country can lend us a few. Until then, we'll make due with what we have.