How many gods are there?

What was the image of God in the moment of creation? May be it was Creator?

 

Yeah, I guess but how does that make man created in the creator's image if man is the creation but not the creator ?

 

Man is a creation not the creation? man is created to be a creator, not the Creator, and that sets him apart from ALL other created things, it is his main feature, neccessary property, the one which puts him on the greatest distance from anything else - animals, trees, apes, rocks?

 

OK, so this wasn't far off the mark ?

 

As it's said in the Bible - God made us in his image, we are alike in some way. It is so good to feel to be his child, to be so great, the greatest thing in all the universe.

 

Yeah, I am sure it's quite an ego boost and feels good to imagine one is the greatest thing in all the universe.

But tell, man is "a creator", do we have powers to create something out of nothing?
I thought only certain gods have this attribute.

 

1. only atheists and cannibals are certain of existence of gods:http://www.politicalforum.com/religion/178106-how-many-gods-there-22.html#post3704713
2. You have been creating your beliefs out of nothing
3. You have been quite creative in expressing them

A personal Q: I just have noticed the stop the dance button. Has ever anybody cared to click on it and am I the 1st one who has noticed it and never bothered?

 

Yeah, click the dance "button" and see what will happen... lol



(only those who do not deny faith in the dance God will see it)

 

Today nothing. Simething changed . You don't have to answer to the personal question, I am withdrawing it. Try to make a reasonble answer to the rest above your post. Go.

 

It's BS which does not need to be addressed.

 

I sincerely hope that you would write Dr Craig.

Ra'h

 

In my opinion its not Neutral that needs medication. It's the Fundy atheists that can not accept evidence if that evidence supports a conclusion opposed to their own rigid unchangeable indefensible paradigm. Or perhaps I can suggest a good read?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1935071068/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link



Ra'h

 

#1.....Whatever begins to exist has a cause.
#2....The universe began to exist.
#3......Therefore, the universe has a cause.

The most reasonable and rational definition of that 'cause' for the universe beginning to exist is an Intelligent Designer i.e. 'God'.

Ra'h

Free education i.e. ;Voice of the Martyrs http://www.google.com/search?q=voic...x=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=bf49a1ee2bf6003

 

Name one thing that has begun to exist. I dare you. Hint: There is no indication that the universe began to exist.

By the way, there are nineteen Gods.

 

Not according to the reviews you can't.

"He posits no compelling evidence for his beliefs, makes blind assertions, and clearly does not understand natural forces such as evolution by natural selection and by writing a book which mischaracterizes science, is undermining observation, experimentation, rational thought and critical thinking."

"Every "point" he tries to make has been previously refuted countless times, and frankly it's a bore to see them rehashed once again with nothing new except the cover."

"Anyone that has taken even an introductory level university biology class can easily discern that this book is based on religious hype and not on real science. This book is not well written, and will do little to change the mind of an educated individual."

With an occasional "Wow, this many angry atheists is a little suspicious?"

News flash: You don't have to be an atheist to know this book is crap.

 

So according to your #1, If God Exists, he had a cause.

What caused God?

 

Well see that's the funny part. Followers of the KCA were logically destroyed previously, so they changed the KCA from "Whatever exists has a cause" to "Whatever begins to exist has a cause." I suppose I have to give them credit for realizing how stupid it was and making an alteration, now I'm wondering how long we have to wait for them to realize that it's still begging the question.

 

This has no relation to the comment of mine quoted, nor does it have anything to do with the thread topic.

Besides, isn't there already a topic in which the KCA has been thoroughly rebutted? Perhaps you'd like to address the arguments there.

 

The universe, it began to exist 14.7 billion years ago, despite you and other atheists who are now trying to wiggle out of the once beloved big bang theory (until secular science realized that the big bang model actually supported theists claims) any new assembly of things, a car is an assembly of parts. It did not exist until it was assembled. Of course not many atheist's ever will admit that the evidence is there much less what it represents. Most atheists will not even defend their paradigm hiding behind simple weak philosophical doctrines. So I do not expect too much different from you.

Ra'h

 

With all due respect, your comment denotes your lack of knowledge of the subject. No the KCA was not rebutted it was discussed with absoultely no rebuttal. If anyone successfully rebuts the KCA I will personally buy their copyrighted article for a thousand dollars. It will be worth a 100 times that much on the professional debate circuit. Notwithstanding that it does not matter if something has been discussed elsewhere on the forum, it can be brought up as supporting evidence etc. Or would you object to mentioning E=MC2 because it too has been challenged and discussed in this forum? How silly is that? What pray tell are you and the usual suspects afraid of?

Ra'h

 

That is the beauty of the logical syllogism of the first three premises of the KCA. Remember it reads; Everything that BEGINS TO EXIST HAS A CAUSE OF ITS EXISTENCE. God is eternal and has no beginning. Therefore God is eliminates infinite regression problem and being eternal verifies and validates the syllogism.

Ra'h

 

No there is no alteration unless its a mistake made by the member copying the KCAs premises. You should not be so simple as not to realize a mistake by a member misquoting a thousand year old cosmological argument (the original was founded around then). The only thing you have to do is to read about the argument, spend a half a day (it would take at least that long for a person of average intelligence to learn a basic working knowledge of the modern version) to prevent such ridiculous claims, if they are serious. I never know if someone is speaking out of true ignorance or malicious self-imposed ignorance (for effect?) when making such baseless and oftentimes false claims and accusations.

Ra'h

 

Discussed something similar on another forum recently. Basically the Greek philosophers proved there was a sentient being who set everything in motion. After that it's up in the air.
Personally I believe in God the father almighty creator of heaven and earth and in Jesus Christ his son who was born of a virgin was crucified died and was buried and rose again three days later to redeem me of my sins. I believe in the holy ghost. I believe in the trinity- 3 in one. Also scientist who've calculated the nth nano second AFTER the big bang or creation, have deduced that the first ever "anything" was a tri-plex or a trio if you will that became a single thing or being. After that and just before that they too have no hard info.
I also think God is in everything, is everything and is involved in everything living and maybe inanimate. Bu t that's just my personal experience. I believe we should respect all creatures great and small and not kill indiscriminately or for sport but certainly to eat and relieve ourselves of petulance.
I personally know there is a god. It is a matter of faith.

 

Great post saltwn, I respect your level of faith. I first came to God by science and philosophy not by pure faith. I had atheist professors and beleive it or not that too helped me find God and Jesus Christ because I detested them so much that I worked hard to prove them wrong! They were just too sure God was dead! (are you old enough to remember the famous TIME cover?).

God truly works in mysterious ways! Now, I am not saying one can prove God exists by science and philosophy, rather I am saying that God exists is an axiom , a truism and by being true science and other investigative and discovery based disciplines will in most cases complement that fact not detract from it. I see a coming Renaissance of science and religion. (despite radical ignorant inflexible fools on both warring sides).

We are finally getting the energies that created the universe by such magnificent facilities such as the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) which is the world's largest and highest-energy particle accelerator that will be able to mimic the energies present when our universe began. I suspect that this device will crush the current model of classical physics if the Higgs Boson is not found. In that eventuality the Standard Particle Model is missing something fundamental. The standard Particle theory will fail in a fundamental way. It might be wonderful if that happens...

Ra'h

 

Kindly do not derail this thread with your KCA stuff, address the rebuttals already offered in the other thread or start a new thread for it.