Arctic sea ice loss due to global warming

So when are you going to show proof. Gore and Hansen have lied and deceived that is fact.

Instead of claiming fallacy show proof

 

What sort of proof do you want? The analysis I did clearly shows that Prisonplanet is, at best, playing with the truth

Oh! And drop the whole "American politics rule the world" thing because it just is not so.

Data showing climate change is coming from all around the globe in countries that could not care less about America and who have never even HEARD of Gore and Hansen

 

Could you tell us who these scientists are please?


Who are "the scientists who are paid by grants by our Government have been busted making data up to support the continuance of global warming science grants too their organization".

What are their names?
What data did they make up?
Who busted them?


I am accusing you of telling a lie. Can you answer these questions?

 

the proof you are providing here is that maliciously deceitful statements are consistently exercised by people of your ilk, and are protected under the right of free speech on this forum.

Interestingly however, if anyone were to level a similar statement about you - even though it would be an accurate and truthful statement, it would not be permitted.

 

No - the burden is on YOU. The overwhelming scientific evidence shows denial is a political not scientific act.

I take note you have stop providing any "evidence" and simply use your knee-jerk "they are lying" bull crap response all the time. That is simply repeated evidence that you do not have valid science that supports your denial

You need to provide evidence that the basic chemistry is wrong.

You need to provide evidence that the basic physics are wrong.

You need to provide an explanation for all the physical changes that isn't contradicted by the evidence.

If you cannot do that then you are just a grumpy old man afraid of change who has confused what is perceived as normal is sustainable.

 

Yet the area where 90 percent of the Earth's ice and 80 percent of it's fresh water resides is actually growing. Antarctica....Studies show that although there were ice losses in west Antarctica over the past 30 years, this loss has been more than offset by increases in the Ross Sea region which is just one part of east Antarctica.

Moreover, recent discoveries show that although ice may melt on the surface in a cyclical fashion, it grows from beneath. The only way we could see a significant ocean rise is if the Antarctic ice was significantly melting...and it is not.

 

Gore's movie is a lie and as far as Hansen is concerned, many real scientists have thrown him under the bus including his former supervisor at NASA Dr. John S. Theon who stated Hansen 'embarassed NASA.'

They why do you call it 'GLOBAL' warming if there are areas on the GLOBE that are not getting hotter? Only the feeble of mind would swallow your explanation.

It is a wise person who can cut through the PC GW garbage and realize that what they physically experience is valid. Unless, of course, they have been so brainwashed to believe that GLOBAL warming has somehow missed their backyard.

Again you talk about GLOBAL warming....There are areas that are colder than historic data. How can this be? And please...I have already heard all the false explanations of how GLOBAL warming causes cooling. Why can't you warmists just admit that Global Warming is a complete misnomer at best?

Seems similar to the 'Hockey Stick' where cooling was left out. Are you claiming that data for that graph was not also 'cherry' picked?

Similar to GW where they fudge data then create meaningless graphs which are 'peer reviewed' by friendly 'peers' so that they can keep your tax dollars flowing to their pensions.

Nope...You're done...

 

A bunch of misinformation, lies and bullcrap. And, of course, as is usually the case with denier cultists, totally unsupported by any evidence or citations.

Here's the actual facts about Antarctica's ice losses.

Is Antarctica Melting?
NASA
01.12.10
Gravity data collected from space using NASA's Grace satellite show that Antarctica has been losing more than a hundred cubic kilometers (24 cubic miles) of ice each year since 2002. The latest data reveal that Antarctica is losing ice at an accelerating rate, too.

NASA, researchers: Antarctic ice loss at least 10 gigatons a year for last decade
July 25, 2011

Unstable Antarctica: What's Driving Ice Loss?
NASA
12.15.10

Polar Ice Loss Is Accelerating, Scientists Say
March 11, 2011
...ice loss from both Greenland and Antarctica is accelerating, and that the ice sheets’ impact on the rise in sea levels in the first half of the 21st century will be substantially higher than previous studies had projected.

Antarctic ice loss vaster, faster than thought: study
November 22, 2009
The East Antarctic icesheet, once seen as largely unaffected by global warming, has lost billions of tonnes of ice since 2006 and could boost sea levels in the future, according to a new study.

 

2011 shows more ice extent than 2007 and is about the same as 2008. How do you explain this?

http://wattsupwiththat.com/reference-pages/sea-ice-page/

 

Do you have a credible source for the claim?

 

Oh, that's easy to explain. Your confusion stems from your complete cluelessness about the enormous difference between the tiny fringe of sea ice, which is only a couple of meters thick, that forms along parts of the coastline of Antarctica, from the ice sheets and ice shelves which are several kilometers thick and hold 90% of the Earth's fresh water and cover the entire continent. The sea ice has grown slightly in extent in recent years because the warmer oceans have put more water vapor into the atmosphere and increased precipitation so more snow is falling on the water in those regions, but the amount of ice involved is minuscule and totally insignificant compared to the tens of gigatons of ice mass that the ice sheets and ice shelves are losing every year at an accelerating rate due to anthropogenic global warming.

Try reading actual science instead of propaganda sites like 'WattsUpMyButt'.

 

What studies? Done when?

Satellite measurements of Antarctica's gravity show the continent is currently losing about 300 gigatons of ice mass per year. And the loss rate is accelerating.

 

10 gigatons is nothing when you realize that Antarctica has 20 MILLION gigatons of land-based ice.

 

Land-based Antarctic ice weighs in at about 20 MILLION gigatons. a 300 gigaton loss is negligible and could just be part of a longer natural cycle. Besides the population of data you are basing your alarmist conclusions on is less than a decade. Not enough to provide any reliable statistical analysis.

 

I have provided a link and there are many more in the net. That being said, most GW believers poo poo any link that casts doubt on their pre-determined conclusions.

 

So you don't have any studies, and you were just pulling my leg?

 

Look it up. Get educated before you decide to debate. Don't expect others to do your work for you.

 

Given all the crap assertions from Deniers it seems reasonable to ask for a citation...

 

I am challenging you to look it up. Maybe then when you are barraged with all the crap from the warmists you will have some real perspective. Do yourself a favor and check it out. At 300 gigatons a year (presuming no natural cyclical climate changes) it would take approx. 60 million years to exhaust all the ice and only if you accept that the Earth will not change its climate in 60 million years which is ridiculous based on knowledge of past ice ages.

What do you think of that? Is that a reason to stop drilling for oil? Is that a reason to require the buying and selling of carbon credits? Can you see you are being duped by those who want to control your use of energy?

Tell me? Have the warmists provided YOU that perspective?

 

Are you unfamiliar with the concepts of 'rate' and 'acceleration'? Antarctica is losing over 300 gigatons of ice mass per year and the rate of ice loss has been accelerating. The process is not linear. Ice sheets are vulnerable to collapse and disintegration, driven by amplifying feedbacks, under conditions of increasing warmth like we're currently seeing at the poles. About 125,000 years ago, during the Eemian period, the average world temperatures were only about one degree C higher than now but there was significant loss of ice around the poles and the mean sea level around the globe was about 4 to 6 meters higher than today.

The scientific data on the condition of the ice sheets goes back literally millions of years and there is evidence that there have been fairly sudden changes at some points in the past. Check out the PETM. Ice sheet loss is already adding a bit to the currently rising sea levels and that addition is expected to increase enormously just in the next 40 years.

Polar ice adding more to rising seas: study
March 9, 2011
(excerpts)

(PhysOrg.com) -- The Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets are losing mass at an accelerating pace, according to a new NASA-funded satellite study. The findings of the study -- the longest to date of changes in polar ice sheet mass -- suggest these ice sheets are overtaking ice loss from Earth's mountain glaciers and ice caps to become the dominant contributor to global sea level rise, much sooner than model forecasts have predicted.

The nearly 20-year study reveals that in 2006, a year in which comparable results for mass loss in mountain glaciers and ice caps are available from a separate study conducted using other methods, the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets lost a combined mass of 475 gigatonnes a year on average. That's enough to raise global sea level by an average of 1.3 millimeters (.05 inches) a year. (A gigatonne is one billion metric tons, or more than 2.2 trillion pounds.)

The pace at which the polar ice sheets are losing mass was found to be accelerating rapidly. Each year over the course of the study, the two ice sheets lost a combined average of 36.3 gigatonnes more than they did the year before. In comparison, the 2006 study of mountain glaciers and ice caps estimated their loss at 402 gigatonnes a year on average, with a year-over-year acceleration rate three times smaller than that of the ice sheets.

"That ice sheets will dominate future sea level rise is not surprising -- they hold a lot more ice mass than mountain glaciers," said lead author Eric Rignot, jointly of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., and the University of California, Irvine. "What is surprising is this increased contribution by the ice sheets is already happening. If present trends continue, sea level is likely to be significantly higher than levels projected by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change in 2007.

The team found that for each year over the 18-year study, the Greenland ice sheet lost mass faster than it did the year before, by an average of 21.9 gigatonnes a year. In Antarctica, the year-over-year speedup in ice mass lost averaged 14.5 gigatonnes.

The authors conclude that, if current ice sheet melting rates continue for the next four decades, their cumulative loss could raise sea level by 15 centimeters (5.9 inches) by 2050. When this is added to the predicted sea level contribution of 8 centimeters (3.1 inches) from glacial ice caps and 9 centimeters (3.5 inches) from ocean thermal expansion, total sea level rise could reach 32 centimeters (12.6 inches).

© PhysOrg.com™ 2003-2011

(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.)

 

What is the rate of acceleration? When will ice sheets collapse? How much is 'significant'....?

If ice was lost at a great extent over millions of years in the past, they how do you calculate the 'condition of the ice' that doesn't exist? How can you say anything about melted ice?

So in 40 years we MIGHT see a 2 inch rise in sea level. In 100 years maybe a 5 inch rise...If and only IF your unsubstantiated predictions occur.

And the Earth has well over 20 MILLION gigatons of land ice that has seen vast changes over the ages completely and entirely without human contributions.

'Ice sheets?' Are you changing the discussion now to sea ice?

Glaciologists disagree. Losses since 1999 have been less than 5% which might raise sea levels by 3mm globally.

From the NDIC..."We are still trying to catch up on what went wrong," says Mark Serreze, adding that the datasets are very complex. "Clearly whoever did this analysis made their own interpretation of the data. At NSIDC we made no statement of a 15 per cent ice loss. We do not know where that number has come from. There has been some kind of error, or some kind of mis-assessment of the data. ying to track it down."

Classic example of a flawed study thrown out and accepted in knee-jerk fashion by the rabid GW worshipers.

 

Oh that's hilarious. You don't have a shred of evidence, and you blame it on me. Another conservative avoiding accountability.

 

RPA1, meet RPA1. One of you guys should decide what you two really think.

 

Apparently cutting and pasting quotes out of context and pretending they mean what you want them to mean passes for debate with you. Apparently you got nothin'....I accept your white flag.

 

Perhaps you should rise to the challenge to refer to some of the sources that have been provided for you, over a number of years, providing accurate information on this issue, rather than political spin?