Tired Teen won't stand for pledge. Mom says, 'pooor baby'.

No it isn't. It is definitively liberty-supportive.

 

Forcing people to swear undying allegiance to the government is "liberty-supportive"?

How so?

 

Oh brother. You think you impress people with talk like that? What a joke.

 

because obamas real last name is jones? wtf are you talking about?

 

if you didn't see them, there was oncoming traffic. not the same thing.

the same people are injured by other students not saying the pledge are the same that are injured by other students wearing hats or "inappropriate clothing", they are a distraction in the classroom.

 

You don't care 'how so'. Your mind is already made up. If you WERE interested though, you could get the answer simply by reading the Pledge at face value.

Grow up.

 

Yeah, nothing says personal liberty like the forced compliance to a pledge every morning.

 

children don't choose the condition of their birth.

 

Fun fact: I stopped saying the Pledge and singing the Anthem about halfway through high school. Why, I just didn't see a reason for doing it anymore, it seemed more like an obligation rather than a choice. And it didn't make the world any more or less worse.

 

So now inaction is an action? Not doing something is a distraction?

Here's a fix: stop mandating that schools have to say the pledge.

 

I don't need to grow up. I'm not the one supporting proto-fascism. That would be you. You made the claim that the pledge supports liberty. Back it up.

I've already pointed out how it does the opposite. If you can't back up your claim, then it will simply be dismissed out of hand.

 

if you decide not to choose, you still have made a choice. not participating with the rest of the class is most definitely a distraction.

as far as i know, education is a local/state issue and the Feds say nothing about it.

 

History of the Pledge:

http://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm

Also, please note who originally wrote the Pledge of Allegiance...Francis Bellamy. He was a Socialist Minister who teamed up with James Upham in a scheme to sell "patriotism" to schools by selling mass quantities of American flags and promoting his allegiance and using the children attending the schools to do the selling for them. I guess there's nothing like a little child labor thrown in there for good measure. Anyhow, this whole ordeal starting as a marketing ploy by a socialist minister who wrote it as a way to pledge loyalty to the state, so I find it rather odd that modern day Conservatives are complaining about someone not using the pledge when it was clearly intended as a means of socialist control. Doesn't anyone else find it rather interesting that the pledge also contained a salute that originally resembled the Nazi salute until the US Congress changed it to it's current hand-over-heart form? Any reason the Nazi regime would copy this knowing full well the intent behind the salute? I'm pretty sure you can guess why.

Heck, it wasn't even until the Eisenhower administration that the words "one nation under God" were added into the pledge during the cold war, simply as a way to differentiate the US from the atheistic socialist Soviet Union.

 

Obama's real last name isn't Martin either but he claimed Taryvon as a son.

My guess is that Jones looks like what Obamas son would look like too.

And he even has the same lack of patriotic spirit and respect for the flag that Daddy Obama has.

 

the "Nazi" salute dates back to Rome.

 

Freedom of Speech and Expression is a Constitutional issue. Local/state authorities have no right to violate the Constitutional rights of their residents.

 

To be fair it had far more to do with selling flags than with any socialist agenda. After all, we have never pledged allegiance to a socialist government. In this case I think the fact he was a socialist is added in to make it sound "evil".

 

Mommie I'm too tired to go to work today. That's okay baby.

Mommie. I'm too tired to haul around my weapon today. Okaaay baybeee.

 

then states can't compel exit exams either...or even curriculum.

 

That can't force the students to actually do them.

 

Agreed...just as most Nazi symbolism has ancient roots. The point was to show that there was a modern pre-Nazi equivalent of that salute in the United States and that the salute itself is tied to a marketing campaign, which is exactly what the Nazi regime utilized it for (Propaganda, marketing, etc.).

 

I went to a Catholic elementary school, we said the pledge, standing, while facing the flag with right hand on left side of chest...never had to say the pledge in high school.
.

 

Don't you think you should at least wait until the election passes to spew some false outrage?

 

I agree. It had more to do with marketing and propaganda than anything else, but the original intent behind the pledge was as a rallying cry for the state. In fact, Bellamy was originally influenced to write the pledge using references to the French Revolution, but wouldn't have been able to market socialism in the United States without recreating the exact wording that we use to this very day. There are hints of socialism in the pledge, but you're correct...his socialist leanings have negative connotations that weren't as prevalent is his time.

 

More or less.

Pledges are the sort of thing you expect more from an authoritarian regime than from a supposedly free country.