What Manning did was wrong. He was getting even with his superiors for DADT. But Snowden told America we were unconstitutionally being spied on by the NSA. He is a hero IMHO. And right now all 350 million of us voters should be calling their Senators and demanding the NSA be dismantled, and if our CinC knew about this garbage the NSA was doing he should be tried for treason for not defending the US Constitution. He swore to uphold it and as such committed high crimes and misdemeanors.
I don't think he deserved lethal injection, so the punishment seems to fit the crime. by the way, the oath of enlistment includes obeying the orders of the officers appointed over you, including the POTUS... clearly he disobeyed orders by sharing classifed intelligence...
The oath is about far more than that, it was also about obeying orders. And Manning had a standing order to not reveal classified material . His ONLY argument is that such an order was illegal. And clearly it was not. Otherwise what would stop each individual from on their own deciding who should and should not be seeing classified material? Okay, this time you believe he gave information to people who deserved to have said information, but what about next time when you don't agree with who he gave what? Do ANY of you people think logically?? oh and also, the US military certainly does NOT answer to the US taxpayer. They answer to their chain of command, which ultimately culminates in the POTUS, and THAT is how the US taxpayer exerts control over the military. Don't believe me? Go to your local military base and demand to see whoever is in charge because you are a taxpayer and they answer to you, best guess is 30 seconds before they laugh at you and tell you (*)(*)(*)(*).
Obeying potentially unlawful orders is more wrong. Why do we need warfare-state or police-state intelligence gathering apparatus, when our federal Congress cannot justify anything other than peacetime tax rates in our objective and market based reality?
Prove to me that unauthorized sharing of classifed intelligence is allowed on the grounds the data was unlawful? Manning released thousands of documents...hundreds of thousands...your argument is that this was all over illegal activity? Every printed word? Illegal? The "America haters" are so full of vitriol...logic escapes them.. He disobeyed orders...basic orders for any intel analyst in the services...sharing intelligence deemed classified and above. All the other accusations arguing he shared data related to "illegal" activities, therefore he was disobeying an illegal order, is baseless rhetoric... Prove that in court. He was represented... He had his day...to defend his actions. The verdict is in...
Well, this clears up your position nicely. You know NOTHING about the military or standing orders, and whats more you don't care. You simply always think the USG is wrong. Why do we need intelligence gathering? Are you retarded? And the UCMJ requires, nay DEMANDS, that a military member refuse to obey an unlawful order. But when determining whether an order is lawful or not you only look at the order itself, you don't get to delve into is this information that should be classified? That is not in your parameters. You ONLY get to decide "are my orders legal?" If so , you MUST obey them. You can NOT argue that "Keep this classified material secret" is not a legal order, of course it is.
Yes One thing that people who haven't served just don't seem to understand is that when you join the military you voluntarily suspend your constitutional rights and are governed instead by the uniform code of military justice. It's a completely different document and your rights and obligations are completely different. First of all, I should clarify my yes answer to. Many things which are merely immoral in the civilian world are illegal in the military world. Adultery for example. In the civilian world we shake our head and mutter under our breath, but in the military world a man , or a woman, could go to jail for committing adultery. Anyway back to my point. The UCMJ does NOT allow for moral judgement by military members, it ONLY allows for LEGAL judgement by military members, and for a very precise reason to. What you may think is immoral I may not, and visa versa, and obviously the military couldn't function if 2.2 million people were ignoring orders which they independently judged to be immoral. The question of legality however is a little more straight forward. Is it legal to order me to keep classified material classified? Yes? or no? You have to remember that under the UCMJ military members MUST obey LEGAL orders.
Your opinion is your own, and I can respect it... However, what Manning did was illegal... What Snowden did, was illegal... Also, any NSA spying programs, whether Obama knew about them or not, wouldn't qualify for a treason charge... I really wish people would stop using the word "treason" so arbitrarily...
There is no basis for secrecy in government if our federal Congress cannot declare war according to a Standard among nations nor justify wartime tax rates due to only allegations of war
By disclosing classified information, he was disobeying a direct order, and, therefore, was not upholding his Oath of Enlistment... His morality does not come into play here...
LOL our government routinely collects intelligence and keeps secrets during times of peace. As they should. Whether or not we should be in an undeclared de facto war has NO bearing on whether Manning should have obeyed his orders. Even in complete peace time when we are fighting no one there will be classified information and those charged with safeguarding it need to obey orders.
The only way to blow the whistle in intelligence is illegally. That is the condition created. To do so, to divulge the truth, knowing you will be hunted, is the very nature of heroism. Self sacrifice for truth and justice. Whether Obama knew about them or not? If that is the box you are popping out of... I don't know where to begin demonstrating the profound naivety you possess. Giving other nations the ability to spy on us could be considered treason... or is it your opinion no President can be guilty of such? If a President can in your opinion... how?
No, there are legal avenues... I'll already said that several times... And I don't know where to begin demonstrating the lack of reading comprehension skills you possess, as I was responding to another poster's comment, and made no judgment about the extent of Obama's knowledge of said programs... But, why bother reading when you can just fire from the hip and look ridiculous doing so? And who, exactly, did Obama give permission to spy on us? Hmmmm?????
You are making the assumption that the government has to agree with the whistle blowers. Just because you have an opinion that the governments programs are against the constitution doesn't mean they have to agree with your opinion. And if you leak that information illegally you are a criminal and you face severe consequences regardless of how moral you think you are.
This is the oath. Tell me which part he violated and is being sent to prison for a few decades. I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
What are you talking about? The only way to blow the whistle on intelligence is to do so illegally? LOL No it isn't. The military has an entire division of lawyers who have the authority and the power to demand access to ANY secret materials and if need be contact appropriate personal about bringing charges for illegal activity. In other words, Manning COULD have went to JAG and reported his suspicions and then THEY would have investigated. Which is the course of action laid out under the UCMJ. Corporal Butt Licker decided that he was above following orders or going through legal channels. Once again, the UCMJ does NOT give its members that luxury. If you don't want to operate under those parameters, don't join the military. Pretty simple. - - - Updated - - - DUH!!!
My family was in the military, I attempted to join the Navy (Would've been an 'Operation Specialist'), I chose not to. They tried using bully tactics to scare me into going, it gave me a sense that I knew not joining the military will be one of the best decisions I'll ever make in my life. Thus, what Bradley Manning did isn't something that should be commended. He willy-nilly the information out into the open air, with reckless abandonment. Could or has it hurt national security? I don't believe so, I just think it left the government with a black eye because of it. Now, back to the moral implication, the reason I asked this is because there are reports of women being raped in the military. That it's become such the epidemic, that it's something that women are being told to expect it to happen. So much so that they don't drink water after 7PM to reduce the odds of them being raped. Representative Jane Harman sums it up, "...a female soldier in Iraq is more likely to be raped by a fellow soldier than killed by enemy fire'. If morals don't mean jack in the military, your commanding officer tells you to not say a word about the incident, and you have to obey all orders given to you by your commanding officer, when do you draw the line?
