Sowell: Who Shut Down the Government? (great read)

We have the Article V fight to wage. If we fail then the final option is to do what has always happened.

I do agree that I cannot understand those who so easily give up individual liberty. I do not mind if you willingly put on chains. I do not want any myself, thank you. You keep them for your children.

 

Apparently you don't know enough to realize that the money we are fighting over has ALREADY BEEN SPENT! And mostly by Republicans. At this point its time to pay the bills. And that too is demanded by the Constitution.

 

There is plenty of money to pay the interest. Just cut spending. We can begin with the five hundred independent agencies. That ought to conserve a trillion dollars. No more money for tyrants. It is time to roll back the tyranny.

 

Why fight? Just LEAVE! Its not like liberals would lift a finger to stop you this time. But explain your thinking to me. How does giving all the money to the 1% keep you out of chains? You've been completely brainwashed. Which is surprising given the requisite.

 

So you want to pull a trillion dollars out of the economy. And then what? More tax cuts for Mitt Romney so he won't be burdened paying 14% any longer? And just what is it you think the gov't does with the money that they take in? Did you think they burn it? No genius. They put EVERY DIME of it back into the economy. Which is more than the Mitt Romneys can say.

 

LOL. I would prefer that you leave. Take the moochers with you.
Who do you believe is giving money to the 1%? Obama has been enriching his friends and laundering money by funding his doners. Is that what you refer to? We can eliminate that crime by starving the government beast.

You just might be too smart by half.

 

Do you think that having the government take a trillion dollars from the productive to give it to the unproductive is what makes the economy grow?
This is evidence that the government must be kept away from our childrens' educations.

You don't actually understand freedom do you?

 

Just can't help yourself,can you?

And your jealousy is noted.

 

Glad you are amused. You ought to find this excerpt from the Washington Times online a riot:

The act is not waiting for funds to be provided. They are already there. Tea Party extremists are trying to use non-democratic means to subvert a law that they don't like. They complain about Obamacare destroying our country, but that is exactly what they're trying to do in a much more direct manner.

 

A man working and earning his money from the sweat of his brow, cares about cost and quality. He will not want to waste his money, and look to get the best quality his dollar will buy.

A man who is given other people's money by the government to spend, will not care how about cost, since it's not his money he is spending, but he will still want to get the best quality.

When government bureaucrats spend taxpayer money to provide products and services, they don't care about cost or quality, because they will never use those products and services anyway.

 

Any money can be deobligated. We do need to do that for all future money. I can see why you like trickery and thuggery. I do not understand why you so eagerly and willingly become a slave to the state. This will always mystify me.

 

Post deleted by author.

 

For top earners? It was around 70%. But when did the answer to obscure questions like this provide any measure to anybody's intellect? You can gather assorted facts by pulling up Google. Intellect is measured by your ability to reason properly. Your very question puts your own intellect once again into question. You've already demonstrated that you have no ability in that area. And now you demonstrate it again.

What's with you people and your hair on fire over reaction to everything? Encouraging a dictatorship? As if healthcare will turn us into Cuba The reason you're all seen as extremists is because of your extreme reaction to every piece of legislation that might actually help people. Well...that and your reactionary politics that wants everyone to wear tri-cornered hats or risk being called a Marxist.

you may at times slow us down...but you can never stop us. That's because you offer no direction. You don't go anywhere, and the world won't stand still for your sake. So progress is NEVER stopped.

F.A. Hayek said this: "“Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism
which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the
direction in which we are moving. It may succeed by its resistance to current tendencies in slowing down undesirable developments, but, since it does not indicate another direction, it cannot prevent their continuance. It has, for this reason, invariably been the fate of conservatism to be dragged along a path not of its own choosing. The tug of war between conservatives and progressives can only affect the speed, not the direction, of contemporary developments.” You love Hayek, but you ignore him when he points to your flawed thinking.

Right. I'm wrong. Hayek is wrong....but you've got it all figured out, dontcha??

Well you won't need to concern yourself about that since he's a bit more familiar with the Constitution than you could hope to be. He taught the subject at the University of Chicago...a pretty good school. You on the other hand get your information from a guy on talk radio. IF he does this, then maybe you'll have a case to make. But so far you don't.

 

Yeah...I agree. He should just put this to bed now, before the markets begin to fall. I think if he waits to the last minute we'll see our credit rating fall, and the Bond markets fall, and the stock market and of course the Republicans will blame him for it anyway. Just do it and tell the Republicans...see you in court.

 

Republicans lost the presidency by 5 million votes, AND they actually lost the House elections by 1 million. They held the House because of gerrymandered districts. They lost Senate seats they should have won in Missouri, and Indiana. Right now we have 1/3 of 1/2 of 1 house of congress holding the country hostage. And the idea that they would threaten the entire economy of the United States because of their ideology is insane, and the rest of the country knows it. If this continues you could lose control of the House, so I guess I shouldn't be upset, except that you're damaging this country over your baseless ideology.

 

That, and $.50 will get you a cup of coffee. If you actually think that you can amend the constitution into fulfilling your extremist right wing agenda, you're more delusional than I suspected.

Article V The Amendment Process.

"The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate."

What gives you the idea that 2/3 of the congress would ever agree to what you're talking about, or that 2/3 of the states would do this let alone the 3/4 of the states needed to ratify what you're talking about? Are you not aware of the demographics of the country that you live in? You're so incredibly out of touch with reality it makes ones head spin.

 

Can we help you pack your bags?

 

It's easy to fill an empty vessel. I guess they think that the Koch brothers will sprinkle some freedom dust on them, and they'll become rich.

 

We happen to like it here. We aren't trying to grind everything to a halt or threaten the country to get our way. We didn't threaten to defund a war that we didn't believe in, where people died. You threaten to defund a Law that would bring healthcare to millions that could never afford it that will help save their lives. Don't try to tell people that you have the countries interest or security in mind. You clearly do not. All you really have in mind is your extreme ideology.

You have evidence of money laundering? Why don't you bring that to court. You'd have your impeachment grounds right there. Maybe it's because you have no evidence of that. The big difference with people that donated to Obama and those that donated to Romney was that the Obama donors expected nothing in return. That's hard for a conservative to grasp because it seems to altruistic, and being a cynical bunch they assume that everyone is like them. But they aren't. That's what makes conservatives and liberals so different.

 

Amen to that!

 

Your idea of freedom, is the freedom to discriminate, to exploit, to terrorize, to extort, to oppress. Kind of a cynical view of freedom. It's the freedom to do things, especially to others without reprisal. But freedom also encompasses freedom FROM things. Freedom from oppression for example. Freedom from slavery. Freedom from extreme ideologies that deny us basic rights. Freedom From Religions that prevent us from practicing our own. Your understanding of freedom is limited...and how free is that?

 

Jealousy?? Of what? You? Or maybe Texas? Nope. I'm afraid you've misread things just a tad. I would be embarrassed to say I live in Texas. I'm quite happy where I am.

 

No it can't.

Amendment 14 sec 4.
Section 4.

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.

And it's funny you should mention being a slave to the state since this amendment came after the civil war.

" But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void."

 

You're describing anarchy. It would mean that every law could be defunded at the whim of whatever party happened to be in power at any given time. The laws would be rendered meaningless. We are a nation of laws, not men. Or have you forgotten that?

 

did anyone even read what obamacare is about? or are they just mad because they have a democrat in office? when i see people complain about obama the only response to my question is that 'obama is the worst president in history'(thats a big lie and we know it!) without explaining why he is! and second, i coulda sworn it was the republicans who decided the government shutdown, and these rednecks are still defending them? can someone say butthurts?